Update on Flight 718/June 16, 2011 (PHL‐FCO)

Pi brat said:
We won't even go into that you are an arrogant ass and generally wrong. What does pamprin have to do with it? Its a slam on female pilots and being male or female had nothing to do with it. Do you accuse your female captains of taking pamprin when you don't like their decisions?
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"My female captains"? Now who's generally wrong?

I agree that any easty could have melted down in front of the passengers. I just hope no more do. You're a pretty emotional lot over there. OK, Pamprin might be the least of her problems. Accepting her marching orders from Cleary is considerably worse.

How can you defend a captain that apparently made a mistake and then dug her professional career grave trying to cover it up and turn it into a safety issue in the face of significant evidence? Would you lie to cover up a mistake "your captain" (gotta love that term) made? Would you be willing to sacrifice your job for him or her?
 
Have you flown anything other than the 737?
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Yes for many years, but the few that were spent on the 737 were fun (don't let a handle fool ya). Luv'd 'em, actually.

Just a few months ago, the Air France crew rode their aircraft from about FL 350 all the way into the ocean and never had a clue that they were in a stall because the computers were detecting something different than what was really going on.
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Now were back to the trained monkey stuff. Except if I trained a monkey, I'd tell him to set a pitch and power and let the rest of the bells and whistles take care of themselves. And I would never, NEVER let the monkey get on the PA in the gate area.

The PHL/FCO flight indicated something totally different that what we normally see in the cockpit, so the Captain used her best judgement (always err on the side of safety) in not accepting the aircraft.
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Do you fly airplanes or sit in the parking garage with a scanner listening to all those cool fake Texas accents on the radio? We are trained and tested and approved to handle situations that we don't normally see. That's the whole reason you learn systems, get it?

And handling them properly is what makes a pilot worth the big bucks. Turning down an airplane because your pride is hurt when everyone in the room knows what you also know - that you are wrong doesn't earn you the big bucks. It doesn't even qualify you to be given the responsibility as Captain. You should accept that you made a mistake, you listen to what maintenance is trying to teach you about a system you apparently aren't too sharp on, and then you make a rational decision based on all the available information. And stay away from the PA.

Your defense of the indefensible makes you look foolish.
 
luvn737s said:
Yes for many years, but the few that were spent on the 737 were fun (don't let a handle fool ya). Luv'd 'em, actually.



Now were back to the trained monkey stuff. Except if I trained a monkey, I'd tell him to set a pitch and power and let the rest of the bells and whistles take care of themselves. And I would never, NEVER let the monkey get on the PA in the gate area.



Do you fly airplanes or sit in the parking garage with a scanner listening to all those cool fake Texas accents on the radio? We are trained and tested and approved to handle situations that we don't normally see. That's the whole reason you learn systems, get it?

And handling them properly is what makes a pilot worth the big bucks. Turning down an airplane because your pride is hurt when everyone in the room knows what you also know - that you are wrong doesn't earn you the big bucks. It doesn't even qualify you to be given the responsibility as Captain. You should accept that you made a mistake, you listen to what maintenance is trying to teach you about a system you apparently aren't too sharp on, and then you make a rational decision based on all the available information. And stay away from the PA.

Your defense of the indefensible makes you look foolish.
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Was this situation covered in ground school?
What pitch? What power? The QRH was changed AFTER the accident.
Have you ever stalled a transport category airplane at FL 350 (for real, in the dark)?
When were you rated on the A330? By who?
What was your impression when you heard her PA that night?
Why were you in the boarding lounge for the Rome flight?
What makes you so arrogant that you think you are bulletproof?

You are the scariest kind of pilot I know. One who thinks "it can't happen to me", "I know everything", "I am Buck Rogers". If you didn't make this post just to get under people's skin, then you are one really disturbed individual.

Driver <_<
 
Oh ya, trained in Ground School, and systems. Really how many hours are spent on any in depth analysis of the airbus systems in the current ground schools? Today's version of ground school, can not hold a candle to years prior ground schools, for the information contained within them. This is seen industry wide. Some from the west have probably never experienced what some of the east have gone through truly needing to know the systems in depth, almost as well or more so than the mechanics that work on them. With the advent of the bells and whistles, knowledge of systems have been degraded to the point of, what does that button turn off or on.

It took the company how long after the incident to come out with this letter. How many man hours were spent on researching the incident and consultation with airbus, to figure out how and what had happened? How many manuals, which are not provided to the average line pilot were referenced?

Yet the capt was to make their decision in the matter of an hour or so........

Ok, you westies are super pilots. I forgot...
 
Crzipilot said:
Oh ya, trained in Ground School, and systems. Really how many hours are spent on any in depth analysis of the airbus systems in the current ground schools? Today's version of ground school, can not hold a candle to years prior ground schools, for the information contained within them. This is seen industry wide. Some from the west have probably never experienced what some of the east have gone through truly needing to know the systems in depth, almost as well or more so than the mechanics that work on them. With the advent of the bells and whistles, knowledge of systems have been degraded to the point of, what does that button turn off or on.

It took the company how long after the incident to come out with this letter. How many man hours were spent on researching the incident and consultation with airbus, to figure out how and what had happened? How many manuals, which are not provided to the average line pilot were referenced?

Yet the capt was to make their decision in the matter of an hour or so........

Ok, you westies are super pilots. I forgot...
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Exactly. This is little more than company damage control. Only the weak minded buy into this BS.

Driver <_<
 
A320 Driver said:
Exactly. This is little more than company damage control. Only the week minded buy into this BS.

Driver <_<
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"Week minded" Oh never mind.

You guys are quick to accuse and convict west pilots. Even quicker to defend bad east behavior and leadership. You east guys make statements about west guys not being there so we don't know. Well were any of you there? Talking to someone in the crew room that heard ... does not count. Do you have any evidence that proves this is company BS?

There is something unusual about this entire story. Way to many strange facts. One of the problems is usapa in their rush to overact put this story out to the public and made her the poster child for usapa. As more information comes out maybe this was not a complete victory for the union and maybe someone should have done some research into this before going global.

While it sounds fantastic typically of main stream media there is always more to the story and the other side of it. So far what has been accomplished by putting an ad in the paper? usapa has pissed off the other employee groups, caused the company to file a law suit in NC damaged their credibility even if further (if that is possible). The company, the FAA, the mechanics and the vendors all have pretty much the same story. The only ones with a different one is the captain and the union. A sign of maturity is know when to stop pushing a bad position and admit your mistake.

DOH is a bad position. LOA 93 is a bad position. Seham was a bad position. Cleary is a bad position. Using safety is a weapon is a bad position. Illegal job action is a bad position. Continuing to believe the captain did nothing wrong as facts continue to come in is a bad position.
 
A320 Driver said:
Exactly. This is little more than company damage control. Only the weak minded buy into this BS.

Driver <_<
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As much as I despise what Bradford did to weaken pilot labor, you have to admire how acutely he gauged the gullibility of, and ease at how the east could be manipulated.

I wonder if he would walk into the CLT crew room and shout "squirrel!" and watch all the pilots run around and jump up and down, not that I condone teasing of animals.
 
cleardirect said:
Continuing to believe the captain did nothing wrong as facts continue to come in is a bad position.
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Where are the facts Clear? I've seen only very vague statements from the company about the whole issue and NO comment from them about why they had the crew removed by security. Do you have them? Even the opening letter of this thread has no indication of who the author was. Lay it out for us.

The west contends that everything action by USAPA and east pilots is about DOH. Why would Captain Wells do this for DOH when she is in the top 517 that already have their DOH intact?
 
Pi brat said:
Why would Captain Wells do this for DOH when she is in the top 517 that already have their DOH intact?
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Why do some of the east posters here claim to be in the "517" and yet are staunch supporters of USAPA and DOH?

Jim
 
BoeingBoy said:
Why do some of the east posters here claim to be in the "517" and yet are staunch supporters of USAPA and DOH?

Jim
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There is a big difference between making a proclamation of support for a union and the concept of DOH vs. intentionally making false claims about the suitability of an aircraft and downing it, as some on here claim. Seems a stretch for me that a person who has not had their seniority order alter would do that. Would you do it for relative position?

Join us with the facts oh wise one. Tell us what you KNOW about the incident.

BTW, you seemed to be in a hurry to get my replies to your questions last night, but I don't see any from you today.
 
cleardirect said:
You guys are quick to accuse and convict west pilots.
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Not this East pilot and many more like me. This is not a USAPA thing. This is a Captains right to question the validity of an MEL or maintenance sign off. Had it been a West pilot, we should all rally around him/her the same way. How would you like being forced by injunction to fly an airplane with an MEL on it even though it goes against your best judgement? That is what is in the complaint. The company wants to cram a "legal" airplane down your throat and force you to fly it or be in violation of an injunction. Read it, it's in there, and it's a slippery slope.

Are you so full of hatred that you can't see the big picture here?? This is bigger than an East/West thing.

Wake up!!!!

Driver <_<
 
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