FrugalFlyerv2.0
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- Oct 29, 2003
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WorldTraveler said:
So what happenned in TX? Don't the investment(s) made in DFW need to be protected too?
United Should Close Dulles Hub
- Thread starter Hatu
- Start date
So what happenned in TX? Don't the investment(s) made in DFW need to be protected too?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #17
because the entire N. Texas region developed around DFW which is between two cities and DAL is restricted by size to a pretty small operation compared with demand.
IAD is a very different story from regional geography.
I don't see the DCA perimeter restrictions changing.
whether UA decides to shutter IAD as a hub remains to be seen but the volume of int'l traffic they push thru there says they are not likely to do so but they may play around the margins to try and improve performance of the hub.
again, the greatest opportunities come at other UA hubs which have far less int'l traffic but that doesn't mean that UA's domestic problems aren't very real and IAD is perhaps the poster child for them.
IAD is a very different story from regional geography.
I don't see the DCA perimeter restrictions changing.
whether UA decides to shutter IAD as a hub remains to be seen but the volume of int'l traffic they push thru there says they are not likely to do so but they may play around the margins to try and improve performance of the hub.
again, the greatest opportunities come at other UA hubs which have far less int'l traffic but that doesn't mean that UA's domestic problems aren't very real and IAD is perhaps the poster child for them.
United has now announced that it is eliminating garlic bread systemwide, eliminating ketchup on European flights and cutting meals on its HNL-GUM flights in its desperate attempt to right the ship. UA has already switched to cashew pieces instead of whole cashews in its premium cabin nut mix, which was estimated to save a pittance each year.
IMO, UA doesn't need to de-hub IAD; UA needs to replace its doofus CEO, Jeff Smisek.
WN has already forced UA to downsize DEN with its rapid growth to more than 165 daily flights, more than HOU or PHX.
IMO, UA doesn't need to de-hub IAD; UA needs to replace its doofus CEO, Jeff Smisek.
WN has already forced UA to downsize DEN with its rapid growth to more than 165 daily flights, more than HOU or PHX.
xUT
Veteran
Let's have an "AMEN"...FWAAA said:
He will screw this company up and still get a bonus.
Question is 'who' would be his replacement.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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ok.. so he screwed up the integration esp. with IT and has alienated labor but what would you do differently with UA's network?
lots of people like to forget that CO had one of the most restrictive RJ clauses in any US airline pilot contract.
A big part of UA's current network problems come from an inability to replace large RJs when their poor economics became apparent.
Sure, UA has perpetuated the same mindset that UA planes should be flying int'l routes but that didn't come just from UA.
again, what would YOU do differently.
putting ketchup back into premium int'l cabins isn't going to matter.
lots of people like to forget that CO had one of the most restrictive RJ clauses in any US airline pilot contract.
A big part of UA's current network problems come from an inability to replace large RJs when their poor economics became apparent.
Sure, UA has perpetuated the same mindset that UA planes should be flying int'l routes but that didn't come just from UA.
again, what would YOU do differently.
putting ketchup back into premium int'l cabins isn't going to matter.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Maybe what UA needs to do is treat IAD the way AA used to schedule JFK 20 years ago, and stop running it as a hub. That doesn't mean rolling up the sidewalks -- keep anything that can support itself without connections, which would probably include be a good part of the international operation, and the transcon markets. If connections occur, they're there by coincidence and not by design.
They also need to take a chainsaw to the RJ markets, and dump anything that can't support a real two-cabin 70 seater, which may be a fair chunk of the 50 seat operation. Let the 50 seater markets feed EWR or ORD.
Maybe not the perfect solution, but it's better than the status quo, and that ain't working.
They also need to take a chainsaw to the RJ markets, and dump anything that can't support a real two-cabin 70 seater, which may be a fair chunk of the 50 seat operation. Let the 50 seater markets feed EWR or ORD.
Maybe not the perfect solution, but it's better than the status quo, and that ain't working.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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and AA ended up in what position in the NYC market as a result of that strategy?
UA might not have a terribly successful domestic strategy but they do know how to defend and maintain their int'l network.
they might best be described as Pan Am on steroids supported by a megafleet of RJs
UA might not have a terribly successful domestic strategy but they do know how to defend and maintain their int'l network.
they might best be described as Pan Am on steroids supported by a megafleet of RJs
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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WorldTraveler said:
eolesen said:
WorldTraveler said:
Aren't you two suggesting the same thing: get rid of the domestic/ connecting RJ flights to IAD?
So how come now WT poo-poos all over it?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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because E is proposing pulling down the int'l operation to fit the domestic market.
I am saying that UA can't afford to do that because there are few other places to put that much capacity or move that much int'l revenue.
I noted what AA and UA have both done at JFK - take a niche role - as evidence that you can't pull down a market that generates good revenues if you expect to hold onto it.
Unlike in NYC, UA is the dominant int'l airline from WAS; downsizing the int'l operations will allow someone else to grow there - and likely it will be int'l carriers.
The problem is the domestic operation - be both agree to that. My advise is for UA to fix other parts of its domestic operation at other hubs that have less int'l revenue attached to it.
DL has next to nothing to do with UA's decisions at IAD.
I am saying that UA can't afford to do that because there are few other places to put that much capacity or move that much int'l revenue.
I noted what AA and UA have both done at JFK - take a niche role - as evidence that you can't pull down a market that generates good revenues if you expect to hold onto it.
Unlike in NYC, UA is the dominant int'l airline from WAS; downsizing the int'l operations will allow someone else to grow there - and likely it will be int'l carriers.
The problem is the domestic operation - be both agree to that. My advise is for UA to fix other parts of its domestic operation at other hubs that have less int'l revenue attached to it.
DL has next to nothing to do with UA's decisions at IAD.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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and I am saying they have no choice but to keep much of the domestic feed they provide because the int'l flights are generally 70-75% connecting.
see, we do have different strategies.
the challenge is to make the domestic operation profitable or at least break even.
I think we do agree on that.
see, we do have different strategies.
the challenge is to make the domestic operation profitable or at least break even.
I think we do agree on that.
Crash Pad DCA
Senior
Coming business and residential developments along the Silver Line/Dulles Corridor could drive more traffic to IAD. Closure of the hub could be premature.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/tysonss-small-retailers-dont-fit-into-grand-development-plans-spurred-by-silver-line/2014/07/04/6b4b6292-fd49-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html?hpid=z5
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/tysonss-small-retailers-dont-fit-into-grand-development-plans-spurred-by-silver-line/2014/07/04/6b4b6292-fd49-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html?hpid=z5
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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The strategic benefits of IAD are far greater than the domestic losses that may be associated with them... it also appears that UA is focusing on cuts to other aspects of its business rather than cutting any more hubs.
not sure how many large RJs IAD will see in time but if UA has plans to put large RJs on some flights where extra capacity can be supported relative to small RJs or where a large RJ can replace mainline, it could change the economics of the hub quite a bit.
not sure how many large RJs IAD will see in time but if UA has plans to put large RJs on some flights where extra capacity can be supported relative to small RJs or where a large RJ can replace mainline, it could change the economics of the hub quite a bit.
Crash Pad DCA
Senior
Lufthansa: We Love the United Hub at Dulles
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/07/31/lufthansa-we-love-the-united-hub-at-dulles/
A veteran airline analyst has suggested that United close its hub at Dulles and push more traffic through Newark, but the idea holds little appeal for Lufthansa or other Star Alliance members.
About a dozen Star Alliance flights depart from Dulles each day for destinations throughout the world, and on many a large proportion of the passengers are connecting from United domestic flights.
Dulles is a very strong Star Alliance hub, said Helmuth Schabel, a 30-year Lufthansa veteran who is regional director for operations and airport services at Washington, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami and Orlando.
Dulles works well for all parties, Schabel said, in an interview. I think its a great hub, and we have great cooperation with United. Lufthansa is profitable at Dulles, he noted.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2014/07/31/lufthansa-we-love-the-united-hub-at-dulles/
A veteran airline analyst has suggested that United close its hub at Dulles and push more traffic through Newark, but the idea holds little appeal for Lufthansa or other Star Alliance members.
About a dozen Star Alliance flights depart from Dulles each day for destinations throughout the world, and on many a large proportion of the passengers are connecting from United domestic flights.
Dulles is a very strong Star Alliance hub, said Helmuth Schabel, a 30-year Lufthansa veteran who is regional director for operations and airport services at Washington, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami and Orlando.
Dulles works well for all parties, Schabel said, in an interview. I think its a great hub, and we have great cooperation with United. Lufthansa is profitable at Dulles, he noted.
