United Mechanics file for Representation vote!

[MCI transplant]

I must have missed them. Looks like the TWA population went from about 20 at the time the transaction was announced to between 80 and 90 today; quadruple the original amount. And they are ALL under me!!!

<_< ------ Hey aa! Maybe those school bus are full of AMFA supporters!!! It would be a crying sham to see you, and the TWU, separated from the mechanics! I believe we all know rampies, like yourself, have been hanging on our shirt tails way too long!!!

 

[aafsc]

<_< ------ Hey aa! Maybe those school bus are full of AMFA supporters!!! It would be a crying sham to see you, and the TWU, separated from the mechanics! I believe we all know rampies, like yourself, have been hanging on our shirt tails way too long!!!

You mean like those "rampies" at NW? Well, NW dismissed those self-exalting AMFA mechanics more than two years ago yet the "rampies" are still there making a lot more than AMFA feels they should. As for here at AA I WANT separation from maintenance! I would also love to see the separation of AMTs from the IBT at UPS.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

You mean like those "rampies" at NW? Well, NW dismissed those self-exalting AMFA mechanics more than two years ago yet the "rampies" are still there making a lot more than AMFA feels they should. As for here at AA I WANT separation from maintenance! I would also love to see the separation of AMTs from the IBT at UPS.

You just might get your wish aafsc. It is a matter of time before AA spins off maintenance from AA. When that happens I am sure that you will be able to command what you deserve.

 

[Bob Owens]

They (AMFA supporters) may not have taken money out of my pocket; but if they could they sure as hell would! If the AMFA supporters had their way, they would have ramp and agents PAY AA for the privelage to work there and then demand that that money be given to them. Remember what happened at NW when AMFA tried to get NW management to take even more concessions from the IAM members (ramp and agents) so AMFA give less or not at all? I know you will say that is was a lie on behalf of the IAM and NW; but given AMFA's decades of verbal incontinence towards the ramp, I am compelled to believe the IAM/NW version.

Where is this "version"? My guess its similar to the claim by AA in 1997 that the pilots want to take all the money for themselves. Companies and lapdog unions often try to pressure other unions into demanding less by claiming that if "they" get more "we" get less. People like you tend to believe such tripe.

Bob, how did the RLA prevent AMFA from changing the "preceding language inserted by the AFL-CIO union"?

The IAM had put the terms in place prior to AMFA coming onto the property at UAL. Under the RLA unions have to adhere to those terms until the contract becomes amendable, I thought you would know that. Over at NWA the NMB demanded that AMFA significantly reduce their demands and said that if they didnt they would never release them from "negotiations". Workers under the NLRA are not as hamstrung.
As far as farmout language I believe the IAM had no cap on farmouts.

If this is the process during negotiations, then anything that could have allowed the massive farmouts at NW should have been crushed by AMFA.

Historically AA spends more on outsourced maintenance than most airtlines. Not only that but at AA under the TWU work was "outsourced from A&Ps to new classifications such as OSMs and SRPs.

However, you are right about the other unions being a failure. I have plenty of venom for the IAM which I will reveal at another time. As for the TWU, I agree with most here about the problems at the top; it seems all the unions are the same. As I have said before, the industry should have been shut down at EAL but the other airline employees and their unions were salivating at the prospects of getting EA assets and advancing their careers. I said then that in 15 years they will come for all the others, I was proven right and I am glad I am here today to remind everyone.

Some of us saw it back when the Govt crushed PATCO and the AFL-CIO did nothing. In Europe such an act would have triggered a General Strike.

Finally, you are right that AMTs got more increases than we did. The AMFA supporters should be ecstatic; more for them, less for ramp

How do you figure that? Is it that management and the TWU have made you so submissive that if management says "there is only x dollars for labor and you guys have to figure out who gets what" you accept it instead of saying "F-YOU this is what we need, where you get it is your problem, thats why you are paid millions".

AMFA and the mechanics didnt take a dime away from you-your union failed to deliver.

 

[Vortilon]

I believe that anyone can/could have avail/availed themselves to the tuition reimbursement program for A&P training; not just fleet service but also stock clerks, building cleaners, automotive and facility maintenance. It is possible that non-union people could have also utilized the program. I also believe that program has been discontinued (not sure). As for station staffing, I don't know what you are talking about, we have lost a multitude of stations. PDX, RNO, MAF, AMA, LBB, BUF, ISP, CVG, CLE, PIT, LIT, OMA, SYR, SHV, SLC, OAK, CLT, ALB and maybe more that I can't remember. And we will probably lose more in the future.

Yeah, it looks like AA is trying to thin the ranks of the baggage handlers even more. Station manager was overheard saying that "the job was never intended to be a career". Seeing a lot more part time positions - less full timers.
I wish the guys best of luck - most are adjusting. As for the staffing, there used to be a formula for staffing with TWU clerks based on the number of AA flights per day into a given station - not sure if you lost that as well.

Here's the deal with the AMFA, you will never be able to convince any of us supporters that we were wrong in principle, for supporting the AMFA. Even now in retrospect. The reasons were not anti baggage handler - but more pro AMT.

Why don't you go after the dispatchers, they make over $10 per hour more than an AMT. Not too bad for a 12 week course and a little OJT. Or how about the SIM TECHS, they are now paid more than an AMT for working on pretend airplanes in a climate controlled environment. :huh:

 

[ch53D]

I must have missed them. Looks like the TWA population went from about 20 at the time the transaction was announced to between 80 and 90 today; quadruple the original amount. And they are ALL under me!!!

You kill me. You talk about how evil us AMFA guys are and you turn around and slam TWA and gloat about how TWA being under you. You’re a real peace of work to say the least. Go open another beer.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

. So, for me, this is sweet revenge.

And THAT, my friend, allows us to read your posts with the proper perspective they deserve.

 

[MCI transplant]

I must have missed them. Looks like the TWA population went from about 20 at the time the transaction was announced to between 80 and 90 today; quadruple the original amount. And they are ALL under me!!!

<_< ----- You may hold more seniority there, but they'll "NEVER" be under you!!!! Not too many people can get that low, but you've seem to have managed it!!! -----:down:

 

[swdriver]

You mean like those "rampies" at NW? Well, NW dismissed those self-exalting AMFA mechanics more than two years ago yet the "rampies" are still there making a lot more than AMFA feels they should. As for here at AA I WANT separation from maintenance! I would also love to see the separation of AMTs from the IBT at UPS.

AAfsc is an a s s even to the AA people.

 

[aafsc]

You just might get your wish aafsc. It is a matter of time before AA spins off maintenance from AA. When that happens I am sure that you will be able to command what you deserve.

If all 12,943 of us clerks stuck together, I am confident we can. If they were to succeed in replacing us, then no big deal, I will find employment elsewhere.

 

[aafsc]

Where is this "version"? My guess its similar to the claim by AA in 1997 that the pilots want to take all the money for themselves. Companies and lapdog unions often try to pressure other unions into demanding less by claiming that if "they" get more "we" get less. People like you tend to believe such tripe.



The IAM had put the terms in place prior to AMFA coming onto the property at UAL. Under the RLA unions have to adhere to those terms until the contract becomes amendable, I thought you would know that. Over at NWA the NMB demanded that AMFA significantly reduce their demands and said that if they didnt they would never release them from "negotiations". Workers under the NLRA are not as hamstrung.
As far as farmout language I believe the IAM had no cap on farmouts.



Historically AA spends more on outsourced maintenance than most airtlines. Not only that but at AA under the TWU work was "outsourced from A&Ps to new classifications such as OSMs and SRPs.




How do you figure that? Is it that management and the TWU have made you so submissive that if management says "there is only x dollars for labor and you guys have to figure out who gets what" you accept it instead of saying "F-YOU this is what we need, where you get it is your problem, thats why you are paid millions".

AMFA and the mechanics didnt take a dime away from you-your union failed to deliver.

Bob, TWU Informer stated in one of his posts (paraphrasing) "The pie is only so big"; so many of your AMFA allies subscribe to the "there is only x number of dollars for labor and you guys have to figure out who gets what" tripe theory.

As far as farmouts, I was talking about NW; I am aware of the IAM's part in the farmouts at UA. You stated that the NMB refused to release AMFA and NW unless AMFA significantly reduced their demands. From what I have read, in the previous IAM contract, NW could farm out if there was no one on layoff. The inverse would be that there could be no farmouts if there was anyone on layoff. Given they were negotiating under a hostile to labor government, should they have gone for maybe a $5/hr raise instead of a $10 but keep the previous aforementioned scope? It looks like they had much better farmout protection under the previous agreement.

You consistently bring up "internal farmouts" within the TWU (OSM, SRP, push backs, and de-icing). What's better? Being the highest paid overhaul A&Ps in the country at AA with OSMs and SRPs? Or having AA send their aircraft to a hack shop where there are the minimum amount of A&Ps and where "OSMs" and "SRPs" actually do mechanic work?
As far as I am concerned you guys can do the de-icing and pushbacks, especially de-icing, I don't care for it. But AA isn't going to pay a bunch of A&Ps an overtime rate of $49/hr to de-ice when they can pay an fsc on overtime $30/hr or less, (there is a lot more low seniority fsc on the line than there are low seniority line mechanics). But what if AA decided to purchase a large number of de-icing machines that require little or no manpower like they have in EWR? Who would you blame for stealing your work then?

 

[aafsc]

Yeah, it looks like AA is trying to thin the ranks of the baggage handlers even more. Station manager was overheard saying that "the job was never intended to be a career". Seeing a lot more part time positions - less full timers.
I wish the guys best of luck - most are adjusting. As for the staffing, there used to be a formula for staffing with TWU clerks based on the number of AA flights per day into a given station - not sure if you lost that as well.

Here's the deal with the AMFA, you will never be able to convince any of us supporters that we were wrong in principle, for supporting the AMFA. Even now in retrospect. The reasons were not anti baggage handler - but more pro AMT.

Why don't you go after the dispatchers, they make over $10 per hour more than an AMT. Not too bad for a 12 week course and a little OJT. Or how about the SIM TECHS, they are now paid more than an AMT for working on pretend airplanes in a climate controlled environment. :huh:

Of the cities I listed, most went to Eagle and AA pulled out of a couple completely. We have station staffing requirements in our contract based on number of flights per year. That station manager may have said that " the job was never intended to be a career" but from my observations the same can be said for the position of station manager. I've seen quite a few come and go; some literally (escorted) out the door. If that is the attitude they take then they can look to USAir to see what their future holds. Management can't expect employees to care about the future of the company if the company doesn't care about the future of the employees.

It is not (nor never was) my intention to change your (or any other AMFA supporter's) views; it's not possible. I just delight in highlighting and studying their failures-that is my only purpose; your compensation is inconsequential; I would still be critical of AMFA if you made $500K per year as an A&P or $10K per year.

 

[aafsc]

You kill me. You talk about how evil us AMFA guys are and you turn around and slam TWA and gloat about how TWA being under you. You’re a real peace of work to say the least. Go open another beer.

I don't drink. I am doing the same gloating that some TWAers did when they bumped nAAtives out of their city. I worked with a fellow nAAtive whose previous city was a 25% city; a bunch of TWAers came in and bumped a bunch of nAAtives out. According to him, the TWAers were boisterous and extremely vocal about the joy they felt because they got to screw over some nAAtives. Other nAAtives have told me similar stories.

 

[AMFAMAN]

It is not (nor never was) my intention to change your (or any other AMFA supporter's) views; it's not possible. I just delight in highlighting and studying their failures-that is my only purpose; your compensation is inconsequential; I would still be critical of AMFA if you made $500K per year as an A&P or $10K per year.

But yet you're never critical of your own union; one that barely resembles a union. So would you be critical of any union that might represent the mechanics or just AMFA?

 

[aafsc]

<_< ----- You may hold more seniority there, but they'll "NEVER" be under you!!!! Not too many people can get that low, but you've seem to have managed it!!! -----:down:

But they are under me. A big layoff and they go first. You just can't accept it.