Unfolding News & Events?

[Atlantic]

All overhaul work for the CMF engines on our fleet has been out sourced for a number of years now. It's called power by the hour. I've never had a problem with a CMF in six years.
I have no idea who does this work, nor the oversight involved.
Out sourcing in and of itself is one way to do this work.
The lesson learned with Value Jet though is the oversight to the work that is performed. That has to be bullet proof.

 

[N628AU]

Atlantic,

That work is done by GE, the manufacturer. These are not being done by Airbus, who has a vested stake in the aircraft. Mobile Aerospace has no vested interested besides getting paid.

Also, how many people are not employed by US since the CFM work is farmed out, and all the JT8 aircraft are retired? I am sure at the time, many would say, it costs no jobs. In the long run, it does. Ask anyone who is out on the line. What if they got the right to farm out the E170/190 flying to Mesa, and then decided to retire all the Boeings and layoff pilots?

 

[AOG-N-IT]

All overhaul work for the CMF engines on our fleet has been out sourced for a number of years now. It's called power by the hour. I've never had a problem with a CMF in six years.
I have no idea who does this work, nor the oversight involved.
Out sourcing in and of itself is one way to do this work.
The lesson learned with Value Jet though is the oversight to the work that is performed. That has to be bullet proof.

Atlantic,
WTF is a "CMF" is that a Can't Muster Facts ?
The engine you are attempting to speak about is a GE (Snecma) CFM-56.

The (-#)variants are un-important in this thread.



Power by the hour returns to a factory authorized and employee staffed repair station/ facility..which Yes has provided good service to us.

However...countless other Vendored parts....especially Computers and Avionics items...the rate of Bad from stock....or Vendor delayed warranty issues are alarmingly high , again especially with anything related to Airbus parts.

 

[cat 111]

Chip

Maybe with MESA'a announcement today they can come and take away some more of your jobs !!!

 

[Dilligas]

This conversation has nothing to do with "allegiance"; it has to do with comments regarding third-party maintenance being unsafe.<snip>
Furthermore, I have flown Maintenance Test, SLEP Acceptance, and Research & Development Test flights after contractors have performed maintenance ...<snip>

I believe to suggest FAA certified A&P mechanics are unsafe because they work for a contractor is inappropriate.<snip>

I do not like to see people who have dedicated years to a company see their careers blow up. That's my issue.
But, again, from my experience contractors do great work...<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------

Chip:

This thread has to do with third party sub contractors performing our work. Yes, it has a hell of a lot to do with allegiance, also integrity, bargaining in good faith, keeping your word, treating people with dignity and respect, and all those other intangible assets that don't show up on the balance sheet, but absolutely can and do affect the numbers on that sheet. Obviously concepts which mean absolutely nothing to the palace guard.

This company is doomed under the current management style. There is no way to rally this workforce, we have been lied to, abused, contracts violated with no regard, day after day after day. Management has squandered any chances at mutual respect, and trust. This is not a team of builders, its a team of salvage and demolition. This airline will not survive with them at the helm. The atmosphere is not one which inspires people to trust or believe in the so-called "leadership".

Let's not make this yet another thread about YOU. I don't care if you flew Santa's sleigh last year or if you orbited Uranus in the space shuttle, or what your flight experience is. It is clear to me that you are a legend in your own mind, and no mere mortal has ever come up to your level.

The attitude of "farm out everyone's job but mine" is what is destroying this carrier. The only chance to salvage this airline and our careers is to stand together as one. This month's crisis is the IAM, believe me ALPA, AFA, and the rest are lined up in the crosshairs as well. When they come after even more of your wallet, and they will, spare us any righteous indignation.

Apparently you still do not understand that the work only has to be "signed off" by a licensed mechanic. And even then, abuses occur. I would wager that sign offs have not been forged by secretarial staff at US Airways, as has been reported at a particular third party MRO. That includes work not done at all. I'm sure you are aware of these reports.

If you actually "do not enjoy seeing people who have dedicated years to a company see their careers blow up", then why not draw a line in the sand and stand with those who are saying... "enough". This employee abuse has got to stop. We are being pillaged by people who have no long term interest in our careers, no loyalty to our past shared sacrifices. They have no long range plan, only a short term grab and go.

Using your logic, that from "your experience contractors do great work", I must say that pilots making the absolute minimum do "great work", since I have yet to become a victim of a low paid pilot's error. So lets pay all the pilots 17k to 30k, because in my experience they do a great job. I say that, not to fall into your pattern of divide and conquer, or to denigrate the labor of others, but to illustrate the fallacy of your logic. Will you volunteer to reduce your pay to 30K to help the company?

How about if tomorrow the company announces new aircraft, the ACME JET, to be flown exclusively by the pilots of "Wiley Coyote Airlines", since our pilots don't have the experience, or training to fly the ACME JET. Would you shrug and accept your layoff notice happily, knowing as every new ACME JET replaces the Airbii, you will never return to your career? Our "scope" is just as precious to us as yours should be to you.

Tell us, what is it you admire about this crew? Is it their integrity, their vision, their leadership skills? Do you remember DS gleefully touting the "scopebusters" generation of aircraft to Holly H. on Plane Business? IMHO anyone who continues to defend them and seek their favor and approval is way out of touch with what is happening to thousands of families that worked the better part of their career here.

When I read about the "lifestyle" of some of our employees and think of the thousands of people furloughed, the divorces, the suicides, the depression that is rampant and growing... it breaks my heart. I do feel for the people who through no fault of their own are now unemployed, or underemployed. With each slice of the pie we allow management to take off the table, that means more people will never have a chance at recall. Good people are really suffering. Good employees are receiving the message that it doesn't matter how much you care, how hard you work, how loyal you are, you are "nothing" but a liablility. I am outraged that the lack of loyalty, and blatant disregard for the workforce from this sadistic management team.

It's way past time to stop this, I only hope the IAM has the stones to do what needs to be done.

 

[diogenes]

Dilligas,

Excellent, sir.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

"Mesa Air Group Proposes to Merge with Atlantic Coast Airlines; Aims to Renew Code-Sharing Agreements

ARTICLE AND COMMENTS HERE:

/index.php...opic=7269"

Since I seem to be unable to start a new topic, this seem to be the most suitable place to put this.

First of all, outsourcing will be the end of us all. It's either an airline or a Franchise. If it's an Airline, then any aircraft should be fixed and flown by company employees. If US Airways is being made into a Franchise, then the outsourcing makes perfect sense.

To every one reading this board, if you believe the Mesa announcement belongs in some other forum dealing with 'Regionals', you are continuing to bury your head in the sand and ignore what will really destroy US Airways.

Mesa is growing rapidly even without ACA. With ACA it will be a monster, that will not stop with so called RJ's. When he can, Orenstein will fly anything up to 747s. How will a US A320 be able to compete?

STOP THE OUTSOURCING AND STOP FEEDING THE MONSTER.

Otherwise, Mesa will eat US Airways and now perhaps United.

 

[PITbull]

Gee Dilligas...who are you?


You speak my mind, heart and soul, with every word you spout. It is the very reason for my being on these boards for this entire year and posting 1400 posts. You were able to say it in just 1. Your sentiments are shared by many employees who feel this betrayl. The employees have stayed loyal to this company and have protected this company because it has allowed many to enjoy a decent standard of living. That has now evaporated in the short time this management has been on this property. And the suffering will continue. We will never have labor peace on this property as long as this mangement team remains here. There is no one that will help us close pandora's box except we who have opened it. The Employee spirit has vanished. And it is a sad day for us all. the immorale behavior of these men on human kind. The total disregard by this group of "jackels" that have plagued our great airline.

This management has the arrogance to come on these boards today and mock us and tell us more lies that this action will not equate to job losses. They will get their lawyers to defend this action and say they will not furlough anyone and it is only these 10 planes, betting that the judge will view it as a minor dispute...
And then the door will be open and a precendent set for all airbus work in the future to be vendored out, as these planes come in.

Truly a sad, sad day for all of Labor.

 

[Light Years]

TBONE-
You are absolutely correct with your references to todays Mesa-ACA announcement. The sooner the better the employees here take a hard look at what "the commuters" are doing under our name the better. Our company is shrinking into a shell and becoming a franchise, like a fast food restaurant. 9 airlines aside from the owned mainline and express performing most of the work at POVERTY WAGES. MesACA will have over 300 AIRCRAFT---- the type our passengers are now accustomed to flying. ACA has announced intentions to run off with the hub they bulit for United as thier own. Who's to say this giant concoction wont do the same thing? Mesas CEO, Johnathan Ornstien, a good friend of Siegels recently commented that his pilot group, the lowest paid in the industry, is still OVERPAID. Why, he was asked?

"Because I still have no trouble filling new hire pilot classes."

Chilling, isnt it?

The whole industry is watching to see how far this ridiculous outsourcing can go. We've given them the 70 seaters, you better believe the MidAtlantic EMB195 with 110 seats is next on thier list as its the same airframe as the 170. It seems to me that only the non-active, furloughed, junior employees directly affected are paying attention to the MDA/contract carrier situation and seeing what is really going on here. We were the first through bankrupcy and "restructuring" (read- dismanting and replacing) and our management is pushing it as far as they can.

The industry is watching... are we? Look down! Thats where our professions are headed.

 

[FlyingHippie]

Chip you wouldn't want a medical procedure like a vasectomy or hair transplant done by an outsourced less skilled doctor....would you? The prospects of a French made airplane being repaired by those that don't habla ingles doesn't make me all warm and fuzzy.

 

[PITbull]

Not only that, but no one wants heart surgery done by the lowest bidder, or go into a hospital that provides poverty wages to the nursing staff, or one that has barely any nurses running an acute care floor, for the sake of cost savings.

Tbone and light years, you guys are right on... but we need to be more than watching.

These lorenzo offsprings have not experienced 1 consequence for their actions, and it will continue, until all of labor in our Industry says STOP!

Folks, get a major strike fund together and prepare!

 

[E-TRONS]

Hey ITRADE: The point is not that 3rd party planes will fall out of the skies....but rather the possibility increases drastically.

Did you know it is allowed that a crew of UN-LICENCED individuals may perform work all over the airplane as long as ONE licenced Lead Mechanic signs for their work???? That's reality with third party mtc. Should be no problem to keep up with 12 different jobs at once?? This is a breeding ground for missing something critical. It might not have immediate consequences but eventually things add up and tragedy strikes.

Furthermore, Any time a penalty will be assessed for not making a deadline...corners will be cut to ensure the timely departure of the aircraft from the facility. Otherwise the profit margin is directly impacted.

Quality control?? Just like the two B1900's that went down....I saw the aftermath of the CLT crash and I will NEVER FORGET what I saw and pray I never see it again. Without witnessing such a tragedy due to MTC-ERROR I don't expect you to fully appreciate what is at stake......the loss of lives. If it occurs once it is too much.

Thankfully the airliners are rather forgiving thru their system redunancy. But everything has it's breaking point. Why help it reach that point???

And for all you flyboys who defend the company's mtc-farmout intentions just remember that YOU will hit the dirt first, God forbid if your bird goes down.

E-TRONS OUT.

 

[Busdrvr]

"Folks, get a major strike fund together and prepare"

If you guys hold the line, where would someone send a donation to the fund?

 

[wench]

*****waves arms in the air*******

I'll supervise ..

 

[USA320Pilot]

I fully understand the outsourcing issue and the move to reduce our jobs. My point is that third party contractors do not do substandard work as some have suggested.

Furthermore, I do not like outsourcing either and my employee group is facing the same threat with RJs.

The proposed Mobile Aerospace A320 family aircraft work will be backed up by full-time US Airways quality assurance staff that will work on-site. In addition, Mobile Aerospace conducts some overhaul for America West, FedEx, Northwest and United Airlines. Are these airlines unsafe because contractors perform their overhaul?

Furthermore, every aircraft engine leased or owned by US Airways has power-by-hour contracts and their overhaul is conducted by contractors. Does US Airways run an unsafe operation without our mechanics performing this work?

Finally, just like at US Airways, Mobile Aerospace must pass the FAA same inspection standards. The FAA has guidelines for "Oversight of Repair Stations" and additional information can be contained from the Administrations website to obtain FAA Inspection Information.

I do not like this issue any more than anybody else and I empathize with the IAM-141M, but I disagree that Mobile Aerospace or any other vendor is unsafe.

Respectfully,

Chip