BillLumbergh
Veteran
Last warning on the language.
Ual F/a Chaos
- Thread starter skyflyr69
- Start date
You want the customer on your side? Tell me whats that going to accomplish? The majority of the paying public care about one thing and one thing only and that's the almighty dollar, so tell me... where do you fit into that equation?JAMAKE1 said:I want my customer as my ally...on MY SIDE.
Have a nice day.
[post="268413"][/post]
Thats a cop out plain and simple, its the "OLD PARADIGM" that helped create the middle class and now people like you that think Management can screw the working class over so they can fill their own pockets are going to destroy it.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
tug_slug said:
Oh I see...I should take out my misery on the customer because I don't like what management "did" to me. That's the difference between you and me, buddy. I don't believe that Management has "DONE" anything to me.
I think they took a course of action that was necessary in order to secure exit financing. Do I like it? NO. But, I'm a realist. I've accepted the realities of the market place. The company's been bankrupt for going on 3 years, probably losing millions by the minute as we speak. We live in a free market. A market correction is happening. What lending institution is going to pony up exit financing for a company that has a $6 billion obligation looming? Chapter 7 a better alternative? Not for me. Probably not for most. I'd prefer to cut my losses and try to RETAIN my customer base, rather than making them the scapegoat for my own misery.
This is America. Nothing precludes you from getting out there and credentialing yourself so that you too, can command the salary you think you are worth...except your UNWILLINGNESS, of course.
WNrforlife
Senior
- Apr 17, 2003
- 444
- 3
What happened to the strike that ya'll said would take place if your pensions were cancelled? Whats wrong, was it all talk, or what? <_< <_< <_<
JAMAKE1 said:No, gatemech. It's called personal integrity. Screwing over the customer because one "thinks" they've been screwed over by management is playing SMALL.
FLY just happens to have a little more emotional maturity and and a lot more class than a lot of you guys.
I want my customer as my ally...on MY SIDE.
The problem is, too many guys like you are stuck in an OLD PARADIGM. FLY got it right: If she doesn't like it she can QUIT.
And please, if you're going to flame me, spare me with your rants about drinking Management's Koolaid...it's TIRED.
Have a nice day.
[post="268413"][/post]
JAMAKE1,
My post was intended to maybe get a smile. I never do anything to impact the customer. My goal is to make life at work for management a living h*ll. Don't have to make a lot of write-ups of ground an aircraft. Just don't let them rest for a minute. these people are the worst. I can say a couple are OK. Most would send their mother to jail if it would get them somewhere.
I hope that wasn't considered a flame.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
WNrforlife said:
Great. Just what we need. Another bottom-feeder. :down:
Go back to WN and leave the UA business to us. Those of you waiting for UA to roll over and die for your own self preservation... you are wasting your time here.
You just motivate the rest of us to come back and become your worst nightmare.
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
- 1
JAMAKE1 said:
I guess that it is fine with you that Tilton took a $332K bonus recently while robbing the employees pension plan!
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
- 1
WNrforlife said:
No need to be badgering the UAL employees! They are having to go through enough crap right now. And in case anyone hasn't told you SWA is in the big pond called the airline business and the ripples from the boulder thrown in yesterday will eventually come your way.[If not in pension plan form wage concessions form]
spacewaitress
Senior
- Aug 27, 2002
- 468
- 0
He's already made that abundantly clear...but hey, this is America...and that's the American way, such as it is.goingboeing said:
JAMAKE1
Veteran
goingboeing said:
The pension fund was already underfunded by $9 billion and counting. I would hardly call Tilton's $332K bonus "robbing" the employee's pension plan. Tilton is a man that has experience in leading Fortune 500 companies. The man probably puts in 12 to 18 hours a day at WHQ. He did not volunteer to come to UAL. Jack Creighton and the UAL Board pleaded with him to take the position. (If you recall, nobody wanted to captain a sinking ship).
MOST people do not possess the education, credentials, and executive level experience to lead a Fortune 500 company, especially the size of UAL, out of bankruptcy. When you have that skill-set in your pocket, you come to the table with a fair amount of LEVERAGE. Leverage to write your own employment contract. So, Tilton's skill-set is highly VALUED.
If he succeeds in leading this company out of bankruptcy, and into a viable competitor, I'd say he's probably earned every penny of his bonus. So no, I don't begrudge his compensation.
Having said that, I do think where he and his team have dropped the ball is not getting the rank-and-file on the same page. There remains a disconnect between the Ivory Tower at WHQ and the front line. Perhaps the pensions could have been dumped without the rank-and-file feeling forced into a corner.
JungleClone
Senior
- Jan 9, 2004
- 338
- 0
Everybody needs to stop whining about the pensions and face reality. Pensions in this industry, and probably nearly every place else, are going to become extinct. This industry hasn't even seen the worst yet. You think it's been bad over the last 4 years? Just wait until the dirty little secret of Peak Oil finally gets acknowledged on Wall Street. Then all hell will break loose. That does not bode well for a high cost industry that is considerably reliant upon petroleum by-products.
I'm not exactly Tilton's greatest fan. But they had no choice but to turn over the pensions to the PBGC. They're so grossly under-funded and would represent such a large drain on cash flow that it would have been impossible for United to secure exit financing to emerge from bankruptcy. Remember that we're trying to survive. It's still up in the air whether we actually do that. But as painful as it may be for many, the pensions were a no-brainer.
I'm not exactly Tilton's greatest fan. But they had no choice but to turn over the pensions to the PBGC. They're so grossly under-funded and would represent such a large drain on cash flow that it would have been impossible for United to secure exit financing to emerge from bankruptcy. Remember that we're trying to survive. It's still up in the air whether we actually do that. But as painful as it may be for many, the pensions were a no-brainer.
WNrforlife
Senior
- Apr 17, 2003
- 444
- 3
goingboeing said:
Just as I thought- nothing but a bunch of idle threats. Just goes to show that union leadership is absolutely worthless.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
JAMAKE1 said:
What kind of degree does one need to run a company by slashing wages and benefits and eliminating pensions!
A high school graduate can make that decsion.
The experience factor comes into play when he protects executive pensions and benefit packages.
And if he successfully leads UAL out of bankruptcy, he did it at the expense of the average worker. Let's see how happy you are if the judge abbrogates the labor agreements and force feeds new wages and workrules on you.
synchronicity
Advanced
- Nov 27, 2002
- 144
- 0
Hopeful said:
Yeah, that's generally what happens in BK. Either A) you come to some concessionary agreement with the company that severely cuts wages and benefits, or 2) the contract gets thrown out and you have severe wage and benefit cuts thrust upon you.
Or iii) You decide to go on strike, which eliminates your job (and any wages and benefits) entirely.
"Let the judge decide!" Be careful what you wish for.
-synchronicity, no fan of UAL management, no fan of UAL unions
