UAL Contract Proposal Info
- Thread starter Goey
- Start date
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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2ndGENAMT said:
The pension freeze was done before abrogation. Based on what happened to all the other airlines we would have lost continued DBP anyway. Would it be better if it was taken versus agreed to prior to? Sounds like we are arguing semantics.
And we weren't the worst in 2003 in pay. UA, US, NW, and DL were all below us then due to BK by their carriers. They passed us about two to three years ago, except for US. None of those carriers mentioned were earning pension credit for the last nine years either but I guess that's a throwaway for you.
Don't like job security being gone either. Not sure where that would have landed in abrogation.
Overspeed
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- Jun 27, 2011
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dvlhog212 said:
In 2012 UA alone had about 4,200 but are showing 8,100 after the merger so I assume that means UA/CO combined. Source was DOT F41.
The buy out proposal looks like they are shooting for 1,000 to leave so they would be at 7,000 after if they take the deal.
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
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2ndGENAMT said:
The IBT website says they rejected and countered already. http://teamsterair.org/node/694
2ndGENAMT
Veteran
- Dec 23, 2011
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I don't know if you realize this but AMTs at AA don't get longevity pay anymore. We maxed out at 30 cents an hour before the TWU handed that over in 2003. Interestingly though, fleet and stores never lost their longevity. So even if UA gets a penny of longevity it is something that we don't get. One problem is that if the TWU ever "Negotiated" longevity pay back for AMTs, they would give away something of higher value for it. Also note the 7 weeks of vacation at UA. You have to be a stock clerk to get 6 weeks at AA. We demanded separate negotiations because of fleet dictating our contract and settling for one time lump sum payments instead of percentage raises. Now the TWU punishes us for this by making us the lowest paid AMTs in the entire industry. Now we will make $6.49 less than United AMTs. You keep pointing out the huge pay raise we will get at 36 months DOS. I was promised 6 weeks of vacation if and when I got to 25 years too and never saw it. We have nothing until it is in our hand. I don't trust the TWU to get me that money. Also it is an AVERAGE of United, Delta and U.S. Air. United will be top dog, Delta is behind them and U.S. Air won't see a new contract until ours is over. They (U.S. Air management) have drug their feet in negotiations for a long time already. Also the TWU will allow AA to disregard this and that to knock the figure down lower and lower. Two weeks vacation, five more holidays equals three weeks of pay United will get that we don't so that must also be considered when you compare apples to apples. Also the 12 sick days (paid 100%) and the 1600 hour bank. I am sick and tired of you international morons disregarding facts and helping AA justify their underpaying and mistreatment of AMTs. But what can we expect from a union that insists on fleet and stores having superior benefits to AMTs? We have been promised all kinds of wonderful things by the TWU and what we got was the worst deal in the history of aviation. UA will get furlough protection while the TWU is in the process of helping the company make the line qualifying test harder to pass so the overhaul AMTs can't use their seniority to keep their jobs. This is the union that you keep singing praises to. I can't afford to have the TWU represent me any longer. Hell, UA even doubled the buyout that TWU "Negotiated" with AA. You don't like the VEBA? Well I guess you and the TWU figure nothing is better than having a VEBA because that is what our guys got. Why can't you just admit that the TWU has had a vendetta against the AMTs because of the separate negotiations? People like you are responsible for destroying our careers. If you aren't going to help us then go away and quit hurting us. Your constant justification of the worst contract of all time is disgusting. Also your act is getting old. Nobody can justify the debacle that is our contract. What about the Gain Sharing? We were supposed to have negotiations within 6 months DOS and a deal within 18 months. How many meetings have they had? None that is because AA refuses to discus this issue. I feel that since they blatantly ignore this then our whole contract should be null and void, but that would take the TWU getting off their collective a$$es and doing something for the membership. Not gonna happen though.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #25
very true statement... Crandall said something similar.
I would like to remind myself that just because I disagree with Overspeed and have no confidence in the TWU, that does not make him a moron or anything less than a fellow employee with a different opinion. I was wrong to insult the man and would like to apologize. He has the right to express his opinion without being called names by me. In the future I will try to express myself without using insults directed at others. At times I get carried away and this was one of those times. I have no excuses. I need to be a better person.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #28
too bad that other people don't view the world the way you too, Old Guy.
Sadly, there are far too few people on this fórum and in the world who can't recognize that there are divergente opinions in the world.
I commend you for your willingness to show that actions do speak louder than words.
Sadly, there are far too few people on this fórum and in the world who can't recognize that there are divergente opinions in the world.
I commend you for your willingness to show that actions do speak louder than words.
Like the MRT and Line premium skewed our numbers on the 2010 deal? The overwhelming majority, if not all, would have never seen that number, it could have been on paper only because all the company had to do was change start times for midnights and nobody would get the MRT, another thing you left out was that premiums we don't have in our contract, such as Longevity, taxi premiums and a COLA do not get factored into our mid term wage adjustment. I'll have 30 years by the Mid term wage adjustment, so I'll still be earning around $2/hr less than my peers at UAL. Sure its better than earning $7hr less but it still sucks.Overspeed said:
Yes you lie, because the company changed the window where MRT would be paid, they adjusted it so they could still have 24 hour coverage and not pay anyone the MRT, so that knocks your $38 to $36 and change for the line guys. Then you left out the $2/hr that guys in OH would not be getting, that's knocks them down to $34 and change, or pretty much what they are getting now. Are you claiming they changed the start times just for shits and giggles?Overspeed said:
You left out the fact that the US/IAM Contract may still be in place at the time of the Mid Term Wage Adjustment. So it would be $42.16(UA) + $39.29(DL) + $35(US) = 116.45 /3= $38.81 So we could very well still be $3.24 less than UAL with less vacation, less holidays, less sick time, no allowances for tools , shoes etc, no 1.75x for FT, no doubletime etc. US will not be "us" until single carrier status has been put in place, that could take years. It could easily take 22 months.
Look at page 4, Time paid not worked, currently UAL get almost double what we get, in total $15/hr more, most of which would remain even with the Mid term wage adjustment. In fact look at any page and you will see us at a distant bottom in pretty much every category, depressing.
Look at the early out, more than double what AA offered.
The deal looks good compared to ours, but only because ours is soooo bad, but after DOS they only go up 6% more over the next four years years, and they are going after some of the concessions we gave;.
-eliminate laundry Allowance
-Overtime by qualifications
-eliminate moving provisions
-eliminate per diem mileage reimbursement
-they get roll into the IBT pension-cost neutral, no improvement. Looks like the IBT is looking to take the mechanics pensions to bail out their troubled pensions.
