UAL & CAL possibly merging

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So what? As I said before, what about that "stronger" network requires a merger between UAUA and CO that would not be gained by simply belonging to the Star Alliance? Which they already do. Codesharing can be a wonderful thing.
 
Agree with jimntx; with antitrust immunity across the Atlantic (already has with UA/LH) and across the Pacific (applied for with UA/NH), CO has the benefits of UA's network without the headaches (UA baggage).

That said, CO and UA will probably merge/combine/acquire each other sometime in the next year or two. Executives don't always act rationally.
 
The industry is too fragmented and more capacity reduction is necessary for profitability. Mergers are a way to accomplish this. There's something wrong when I can buy a ticket on AA for $84 for a non-stop flight from BOS-MIA two weeks out. It costs $30 for a cab ride from Logan to South Boston.. a 5 mile journey.
 
Agree with jimntx; with antitrust immunity across the Atlantic (already has with UA/LH) and across the Pacific (applied for with UA/NH), CO has the benefits of UA's network without the headaches (UA baggage).

That said, CO and UA will probably merge/combine/acquire each other sometime in the next year or two. Executives don't always act rationally.


More likely picking up the pieces. I'll be damned if their work force is going to enjoy what my co-worker's made into a great place. The only value they have is Asia and they can't manage to make it profitable. SAD!!!
 
The industry is too fragmented and more capacity reduction is necessary for profitability. Mergers are a way to accomplish this. There's something wrong when I can buy a ticket on AA for $84 for a non-stop flight from BOS-MIA two weeks out. It costs $30 for a cab ride from Logan to South Boston.. a 5 mile journey.

Since 2001 there have been 3 major airline mergers--AA/TWA, HP/US, DL/NW. And, yet you can still buy an $84 BOS-MIA ticket two weeks out. When is this industry consolidation and capacity reduction going to kick in?

But, this discussion is off-topic for this thread. We shouldn't pursue this here.
 
I love the fact that some of these employees, especially the rightious CAL and UA employees, (my airline is better than yours mentality) think they have something special and as a result of their special feelings will somehow prevent a merger. Fact is CALs and UAs management always tells the widgets what they want to hear in terms of misdirection.. The drive to merge these companies is yes an attempt to drive capacity and synergies, but the real driver lies in the potential combined market cap and the resulting piles of money to be made by all those involved sans the employees. Will CAL and UA combine or LCC and UA combine or all three, if there is money to be made count on it. Please don't take the comments personally. CAL is a good company, UA is a powerhouse, LCC is not as bad as people beleive. Combined with Star they take over the world. Independent they are wannabees compared to DAL/NW. So yes CAL and United darlings better get used to each others company, this has been in the works since Bethune left. Ask him and he will tell ya. I have.
 
I love the fact that some of these employees, especially the rightious CAL and UA employees, (my airline is better than yours mentality) think they have something special and as a result of their special feelings will somehow prevent a merger. Fact is CALs and UAs management always tells the widgets what they want to hear in terms of misdirection.. The drive to merge these companies is yes an attempt to drive capacity and synergies, but the real driver lies in the potential combined market cap and the resulting piles of money to be made by all those involved sans the employees. Will CAL and UA combine or LCC and UA combine or all three, if there is money to be made count on it. Please don't take the comments personally. CAL is a good company, UA is a powerhouse, LCC is not as bad as people beleive. Combined with Star they take over the world. Independent they are wannabees compared to DAL/NW. So yes CAL and United darlings better get used to each others company, this has been in the works since Bethune left. Ask him and he will tell ya. I have.


Has less to do with pride and more to do with the fact that you can just let the half dead (UA) finish dieing and pick up what is left. No need for the long should of been employee's and all the nightmares that comes with the name UNITED. UAL has not been a power house in many years. DELETED BY MODERATOR
 
A reminder...the topic is the possibility of a merger between United and Continental, not individual members...whether they agree with you or not. Posts have been deleted. Time off can be given.
 
Unfortunately for workers the mergers make sense.

There's too many carriers in this country, and with the plummeting wages this industry is offering there will be a shortage of labor in the not too distant future. While this may not be a big deal with some workers , the ones who dont require much training, its a problem with Pilots and mechanics, who usually start training for their positions and gaining experience around seven years before they get hired by a major.

At AA the average age of a mechanic is near 50, my guess is its probably even higher at UAL. Young kids arent going into the profession. More than half the schools that teach mechanics and prepare them for the FAA tests for licensing have shut down over the last five years.

When AA bought TWA the merger threw around 300 mechanics in the New York area on the streets, so the company had a cushion of 300 mechanics to recall from as needed. Well since then very few opted to return, over 90% had moved on to other occupations and declined the recall offer. Of the few that did, most were near retirement. That cushion is gone.

From what I hear a lot of the UAL mechanics in the New York area have opted to keep their other jobs even if they accepted recall. One that I know says that if he doesnt see any promise out of the new agreement now being negotiated he is going to quit, he has 25 years with UAL. As it is his love for the job is gone and he doesnt volunteer for OT. He is just there to put in his 40, do as little as possible and go home.

This is something the airlines never saw before. Sure there's always been economic cycles and massive layoffs but in the past the majority came back, now they dont because many find that getting laid off was the best thing that ever happened to them. Young kids have no interest in the industry anymore, thats why the schools are closing so fast. A raise in wages wont bring about a supply either because it takes several years to produce a mechanic or pilot, they just arent out there.

Back in 2002-3 when the concession wave swept through the industry many mechanics started preparing to leave. In my case I put my wife through college to become an RN. She now earns more than I. Several of my coworkers, in my age bracket have already quit, they werent at risk of a layoff but they quit. Several went into the legal profession, some into law enforcement, some into mass transit, some into mainteance at Utilites, some into the construction trades some ot other carriers and some started their own businesses.

So between reduced demand for air travel and a reduced supply of skilled workers such as pilots and mechanics, merging operations which would reduce both the supply of seats and the demand for skilled labor makes sense. By merging the two operations they get to more efficiently utilize the pilots and mechanics who choose to stay in this pitiful industry which helps delay inevitable shortage the industry will see in the future.
 
I wonder if something is going on now? I'm not a stock market expert but look at UAUA.
How can this keep going up while still losing money? Tilton must be getting ready to cash in.

Just getter done

Bob,

Read your post after I posted this on.
I have watched many great AMT's leave UA. The problem is that the airlines will
just look for more OSV's to fill the vacancies. The airline mechanic is a necessary
evil. There are still to many on the street willing to step in at a strike. If CAL & UA
merged I'm sure CAL would run the show. If reversed then all are at risk. Tilton has
no desire to run an airline. It is all about filling pockets.
 
The problem is that the airlines will
just look for more OSV's to fill the vacancies. The airline mechanic is a necessary
evil. There are still to many on the street willing to step in at a strike.

While OSV or in our case OSMs may be good for working shops or interior items I dont see their widespread use in Line maintenance.

As far as guys sitting around waiting to come back I dont know anybody, do you? I mean we hear about how all these guys are on the street but I cant name a single person who is an A&P who is looking to get into this industry, and thats with 10% unemployment. I know plenty of A&Ps who are looking to get out though. Whats holding them back is the economy and they dont want to accept an entry level pay yet.

Many forget what the base entry level pay for a mechanic at AA is only $14.74, which is pretty close to what it was in 1983(an OSM is $9.58, lower than any 1983 scale for a mechanic). Compare that to minimum wage which has doubled over that time span.

Remember that NWA never reached their goal of replacement mechanics and ended up merging with Delta, and that was five years ago, the pool has dwindled faster than the industry has consolidated.

A UAL /CAL merger would help delay a severee shortage of mechanics and pilots. With the IBT unwilling to expand the LAX interior mechanic deal, which they should, and the TWU doing the same at AA (where the company wants up to 30% OSMs on the line) it buys the airlines some time as far as re-introducing FAR 66.
 
What seniority system does UA iam use for fleet service? Is it Date Of Hire? Classification? Please explain.
 
It appears some of you can't follow the previous moderator admonition.

This topic is closed. You can open a new one IF CO comes back to the table. In the mean time continue discussing US/UA in the extant US thread.
 
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