UA Board will not approve a split up of the Airline.

[whatkindoffreshhell]

UA will not pull out of this spiral until the current BOD is replaced. The only question is whether that can happen prior to an involuntary CH7 filing.

My god folks, if you were a UA secured creditor watching this Whiteford & Clowns debacle (and by clowns I'm referring to the other current BOD members)how long would you go before calling your note?

UA has a case of "the slows" as aptly described in the current print issue of ATW. Until this "slows" culture is eradicated this death spiral will drag on and on and on....

Remember folks, this is the same BOD that, after much angst each time, hired Goodwin, Creighton and Tilton. Do you see a pattern here? And not just phonetically.

 

[cubfan02us]

I would'nt be too quick about "throwin'
the bums out", as you suggest.Also the
3 CEO's you mention 2 past and one present
in my opinion did and are doing O.K
considering their situations.

No one ,nobody from the airline industry
wanted to take the job that Tilton now
has.Given time and CH 11 my bet is that
they'll get their house in order.

On another note,if you are of the opinion
that ual's pilots are unduly concerned about the low-cost subsidiary look at what
Air Canada wants to do with Jaz and mtc.,
cargo,etc.

ADVERTISEMENT


Air Canada also warned that 2003 was off to a "rough start" as it unveiled plans to sell its regional carrier Jazz, offer ownership stakes in services such as aircraft maintenance and baggage handling, and perhaps spin off its cargo operations

 

[tug_slug]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/1/2003 3:49:07 PM 767jetz wrote:

Since rumors started to fly on the US message board about UA ALPA confirming a corporate transaction, UAL fragmentation, and spinning off a Low Cost Carrier, possibly transfering assets from UA to US, etc., I thought this quote from an MEC update may clarify things. There have also been some conflicting stories in various news articles.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I thought this statement Bronner made to the Charlotte Observer would be appropriate for this topic.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/bus...ess/5126228.htm

Bronner speculated that United has a 50-50 chance of surviving a war. He said that if United were to sell assets, he would consider backing the purchase of some "if it would be beneficial to US Airways." Neidl suggested that United's Washington Dulles hub and some gates at Chicago O'Hare might have value for US Airways.

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/4/2003 10:52:16 PM PineyBob wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/2/2003 1100 PM PITbull wrote:
Liquidation ain't happenin.
----------------
[/blockquote]

PITbull,
Please elaborate on your above noted quote. I'm looking at this thing and I'm thinking UA's survival chances are 50-50 at best. I'm frightened frankly the a UA liquidation will undo a great deal of the good at US. The code share revenue is critical IMO to the prosperity of US going forward.

With UA I see a company with little time and less planning. Perhaps you know more from the inside than a PAX like me would.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Piney,

I don't know all the facts about UA.Just that one could easily argue against the "doom and gloom" scenerio being more purposely planned than a 9/11 mishap. Now, look at U being considered the "darling" airline according to Forbes magazine. I only know that within 9 months , all the airline analysts stated that U was in the worst position of the Majors and heading for the grave yard. As soon as they hired Siegel (little over 6 months after the merger collapsed) the wheels were turning. ALL the carriers experienced the acute situation after 9/11. All were effected. Delta has a major presence on the East Coast as well as SouthWest. You know they were especially effected just like USAirways. Yes, we have a strong market and presence in DCA, but for the loss in revenue as a concequence of the DCA airport shutdown, after 9/11, U was compensated with grant money from the government, (a freebee, no less, as part of the bailout funding).Within months, w U hired these guys (who we know are Union busters and have consulting firms outside of the U corporation, get hired by our Board. I was never opposed to sitting down with the co. and giving concessions to help our co. turn around. I never thought that the answer to U problem was to "gut" all the contracts and get Labor to basically abrogate their own agreements through threats, intimidation tactics, and FEAR. I knew, way back in August, just through my own experience, what this was all about, and what would come next with regard to the rest of the Industry and what now they would be planning. U employees set the new "bar" for the rest of the industry to follow as the "perfect plan".

I wrote out as far back as late August of the "domino effect", this will now create. These labor concessions to the industry (using the same plan) is worth billions and billions of dollars to the airlines who have unions.
As an airline, losing money now, in order to get out of lease agreements that are usually long-term along with getting out of vender contracts through a bankruptcy, or threaten bankruptcy coupled with the "greatest trump card" liquidation, would then allow any airline the once in a lifetime opportunity to make billions of dollars in the future. This manuvering and scheming plan would, in the future, allow stock holders, corporate execs. to make millions of dollars. Why wouldn't a Republican Congress go for that. Get the airline employees to pay for the security measures through cost saving concessions. This way they won't get these pressures from the Majors to involve the gov. with this expense. The flying public believes that they won't be touched by this either. Corporations are keeping you all for last. Once they reduce capacity, passengers will have to pay for higher price tickets along with paying for the eminities. For exp. food on planes will be for sale. U is looking into this now and getting a committee to look at this along with talking with food venders. Meanwhile back at the ranches, the "rank and file" employees will suffer great personal financial loss to themselves and families for many years. It's all relative. When all the airlines get their "fresh start", passengers will be paying higher price tickets as a consequence to reducing capacity. Only folks still riding on the "gravey train" is Corporate Executives!

You have to ask yourself a couple of questions:

1. Why would UA wait so long to implement a plan? You dont think these corporporate execs were watching how U was going to pull it off? They watched and waited. When they saw it working...all hell broke loose for UA. Same plan same time same station.They see the potential for big profits by using Labor concessions, bankruptcy, and
letting the defined pension liabilities fall underfunded to get rid of them. Anything that benefits an employee for their 30 years contribution of blood, sweat and tears for the same co. You know today its a miracle to work for a co. for 30 years. Takes much loyalty and dedication. Now look what the reward is..."0".

2. Notice American and NW, CO, now looking to hire bankruptcy attorneys? Same plan, same time, same station.

3. Notice McCain trying to revamp the RLA? The worry now is that when ALL THESE CONTRACTS FROM ALL THESE CARRIERS BECOME AMENDABLE AT THE SAME TIME 6-8 years, they could cripple the industry by job actions.

4.Then, you have to ask yourself, why in hell would U spend all this time with an alliance with UA (if this management is so ingeneous) which they say is worth $200 million extra in revenues per year, and is part of their "emergence plan", if UA is going to disappear?

UA is being severe because they don't want give backs from their employees, but everything they have ever dreamed of in those contracts...yea, they will lose mnoney all right. Damn straight they will. Chip is helping UA cause as well. You know, "misery loves company" kind of deal.

No one cares about Labor surviving and supporting their families? A respectable life is only for the "rich and famous".

You have the public advocating for corporations, government advocating for corporations, wall street advocating for corporporations, and now even Unions advocating for corporations....WHO THE HELL IS FOR LABOR????

UA is no different than U or American or DL and CO, NW who will all follow this suit. Its a great plan, and if they have to BURN CASH in order to justify ging into BK and even threatening Liquidation as the ultimate plan, which you know causes revenue decline, they don't care. THEY WILL DO IT! And if Piney, you think the co. will not go after the passengers for concessions...they will definitely cross that line.

It's already begun.



P.s. I have been all over these posts talking about it and it falls to deaf ears. People are so focused on what they think is the obvious. That is exactly what they want you to believe. Read all the threads above that I've written, if you can take it. I have also posted many threads on other posts with the same "theme".



[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/5.gif']

 

[cubfan02us]

Pitbull very good post.Your mention
of McCain and his support of Carty's
baseball style arbitration is also
very astute.Duane Worth spoke to this when
he was sitting next to Carty and some
industry execs recently in front of congress.Carty was surprised and just
changed the subject...

This is airline mangement's once-in-a-
lifetime opportunity.Erase 20 years of
labor's gains in 2 or 3 years time.

 

[PITbull]

Thanks Cub,

I, however,made a slight error to a meaning I was trying to make. I meant to say Labor is for Corporations. It was conveyed incorrectly in the thread.
I have subsequently edited it.