Twu Rejected By 74%

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

TWUer,

You claim to be a veteran, yet you support the COMMUNIST TWU? Your story just doesn't add up! :blink:

 

[twuer]

Pro-amfa. . .

twuer-enemy of democracy.

If your a veteran I spit in your face


Come on amfa supporters. . .any of you like to defend your partners statement here?? Come on justify it. You cried and cried that we defaced a coffin with a flag (which was not done). This man declares that he will "spit on a veteran"!!! I have taken a lot of SH** off some of you in the past and taken it with a grain of salt but I'm afraid this one from PRO-AMFA has gotten my feathers a bit ruffled.

It's funny that most of these personal attacks like this one come from amfa supporters. . .why is that??? Could it be that they are getting desparate??? Coming to the end of the amfa line???? Give it up boys. . .you lose!!

And for you pro-amfa. . .let's just say that you should be thankful that you are allowed to use an alias here. And that's all I have to say about that. . .

 

[Buck]

Since you fought for our rights with your brothers and sisters in the desert, then I guess you really do not have a problem with the election?

Why are you afraid of democracy?

 

[twuer]

Since you fought for our rights with your brothers and sisters in the desert, then I guess you really do not have a problem with the election?

Why are you afraid of democracy?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? MY SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY, YOUR COUNTRY, HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAY ABOUT AMFA AND I TAKE OFFENSE TO YOUR SUGGESTIONS!!

I NEVER SAID I WAS AGAINST A VOTE BUCK!! I SAID THERE WASN'T GOING TO BE A VOTE!!! TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!! ARE YOU ALL THAT STUPID TO SEE THAT?? YOU BEING A VETERAN BUCK (OR SO YOU SAID) SHOULD BE HIGHLY OFFENDED BY WHAT PRO-AMFAPUNK SAID. . .BUT I SEE THAT YOU HAVE NO FEELINGS EITHER WAY.

AND YOU PRINCESS JUDY DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING, SO WHAT YOU SAY TO ME MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

YOU AMFA PUKES HAVE STEPPED OVER THE LINE. ANY OTHER AMFA PUKE WANT TO ADD ANY COMMENTS ABOUT MY PATRIOTISM???? GO RIGHT AHEAD. IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK THAT MUCH MORE IGNORANT AND SELF-SERVING!!

FOLKS LIKE ME (VETERANS) ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE ALLOWED YOU THE PRIVILEDGE TO HAVE A VOTE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I GUESS YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT PART. I DIDN'T SERVE FOR THE GLORY,LIKE MOST VETERANS I KNOW, BUT CRAP LIKE THIS STARTS AND TEMPERS WILL FLARE. WHY DON'T YOU TRY STICKING TO THE TOPIC AND STOP THE ATTACKS FOR ONCE!!

 

[proAMFA]

If you are against the ability of the worker to choose representation then you are against democracy-it's that simple.

The TWU was allowed to have a vote at Mesa. They lost. At least they got a vote. You are against the idea of having a vote. Your against AMFA-OK I accept that.
What I don't accept is your indorsement of the company or TWU's plan to take away our ability to vote. It is without a doubt undemocratic.

If TWU is a better choice they will win the election. But to insure that the TWU maintains its position by removing the ability to vote is unAmerican and any veteran who indoreses this needs to reevaluate his values.

I will not apologize for my remark. Anyone who takes away democracy from Americans is an enemy of mine especially to support a socialist vehicle like the TWU.

The way for the TWU to keep its position is simple....

Earn our business!

The TWU will pay in the long run if the membership denied the ability to vote. Already the TWU suffers from lack of support at the line stations. It can and will get worse. Without the vote we will never be a united union.

NO VOTE NO PEACE!

 

[twuer]

I will not apologize for my remark. Anyone who takes away democracy from Americans is an enemy of mine especially to support a socialist vehicle like the TWU.

It was I and thousands of men and women (many who died trying) who have given you (us) this democracy that you talk of!! I would not accept your apology even if you gave one. You care about yourself and that's it. That's the amfa theme. . .as long as I get mine then why should I care about you.

If TWU is a better choice they will win the election. But to insure that the TWU maintains its position by removing the ability to vote is unAmerican and any veteran who indoreses this needs to reevaluate his values.

You are entitled to your opinions, that is your right but you are putting words in my mouth and then insulting me. You show me where I said I didn't agree with a vote. . .you show me where I said I agree with the company's list. . .YOU CAN'T!!! You are merely making assumptions from what you have read about my opinions of amfa to be. You have clearly shown us what happens when you make assumptions I might add!!!

Without the vote we will never be a united union.

I don't think a vote will help us at all. The amfa supporters are not going to support the TWU if the TWU wins and the TWU supporters are not going to support amfa if amfa wins. Plain and simple. We are like the Hatfields and McCoys now. Rivals!! Sad but true.

When you attack a veteran regarding his values as an American you better have proof to back it up pal.

 

[Kev3188]

The fact that YV dispatchers decided to go it alone against the company is a telling statement as to how little credibility the twu has left. As anyone who has worked there, and lived to tell about it, Mesa is anything but labor friendly.

 

[Bob Owens]

I guess you think that the TWU is to blame for all the misfortunes in this industry. I wonder at the airlines that AMFA is the bargaining agent why is AMFA not responsible for the loses there?Jim

I dont know of any AMFA represented mechanics who only get one week of vacation, only 5 holidays and only at time and a half if worked, prefund their retirement health benifits for 35 years, have to wash their own uniforms, never get double time, train after shift on straight time, took a 17.5% paycut, agrred to B-scale, C-scale, OSMs, SRPs etc.

 

[Bob Owens]

And guess what. . .I'm rarely wrong as well!!!

Obviously TWUer doesnt know the difference between right and wrong.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

TWUer,

For once your right. I don't have a clue! Why anyone could support the TWU! :blink: that is. Have a happy holiday weekend,TWUer! Ohh that's right! The TWU gave up the GOOD FRIDAY holiday! :down:

 

[Checking it Out]

want to bet on that TWUer I am 99% sure that there will be an election and I am rarely wrong there is a 1% chance that a miracle will happen like maybe the rapture or something I don't know but other than that you can bet that there will be an election, as far as who will win those odds are much closer, I will guess that AMFA will win since they have not lost an election yet but you never know it could be a close election so close that I would not even take a bet on that, but there will be an election you can bet on that and remember you heard it from Raptor first well maybe not first but you heard it from me anyway
just as I said we would get enough cards to file for an election I was right about that too
There will be more debate challenges in the future but none will be accepted by either party I am right about that too.

I could go on but you get the point.

Keep the hope up! I believe the members have voiced their opinion by not signing a card! The Majority has made the choice to stay in the TWU!

Have a Great TWU Weekend!

As for the vote at Mesa! This possibly could happen at AA someday!

 

[Buck]

TWUer,

Since you believe I am questioning your "PATRIOTISM" , I have a question for you.

Are you aware of where your dues monies go and what they are used for in all aspects?

and BTW, I only asked a couple of questions. Now you call me stupid. I want to practice one of the freedoms you fought for and you slander me. If that is truly how you feel, than it does place you in the area of being hypocritical.

Whether or not I advocate what anyone else here says, has nothing to do with your service to the country. But while you are doing your duty on one end you could be defeating that purpose on the other. Do some research and see if you can answer the dues question.

 

[twuer]

TWUer,

Since you believe I am questioning your "PATRIOTISM" , I have a question for you.

Are you aware of where your dues monies go and what they are used for in all aspects?

and BTW, I only asked a couple of questions. Now you call me stupid. I want to practice one of the freedoms you fought for and you slander me. If that is truly how you feel, than it does place you in the area of being hypocritical.

Whether or not I advocate what anyone else here says, has nothing to do with your service to the country. But while you are doing your duty on one end you could be defeating that purpose on the other. Do some research and see if you can answer the dues question.

Buck,
Let me first apologize for my temper. Some things are not meant to be criticized and I will leave it at that.

As for my dues. . .I have been with the TWU long enough to know where my dues are going and what they are being used for. But I have no doubt that you will add in your 2 cents worth. Where my dues go and my patriotism should not even be used in the same sentence if that's what you are getting at. If that's the case then attack everyone else who pays dues. That should keep you busy for quite sometime. You pay dues don't you?? does that make you less "patriotic"??

I am not sure where your reasoning comes in to play here on these boards because I still will not support amfa whatever spin you choose to put on the subject.

My service as a veteran to the United States of America was challenged by Proamfa and I took that challenge. You and Judy added more comments to feed the fire. Let's get off it shall we. . .

 

[aircraft_artificer]

Twuer -
Answers -
You and many others know that AMFA has been in existence for many years, as have the industrial unions and their concepts. I see no need to go into that matter as it proves no realistic point or approach.
Many of the airlines laid people off after the 9/11 tragedy. The fact is the only one to attempt to get these people back was AMFA. They knew the "Force Majure" arbitration was a long shot but took it anyway, yes and did lose. Arbitration is a very poor attempt at imitating the legal system, to many possibilities for opinions and corruption(oops did I say that out loud). The other facts are that the lay-offs at NWA were all predicated with a possibility of moving as they could not be laid off if they took the bid. The lay offs at UAL all happened before AMFA was certified as the CBU. Since that there have not been any mech lay offs, in fact the opposite is true. The lay offs at Mesaba were successfully argued and those people are due their jobs and back pay at least for the moment(the company has appealed the decision, gee that is a surprise). How many at AA were laid off and what has the TWU done to get their jobs back?
Starting pay is another issue they have addressed in the past and will address in the future. It is in the contract at ACA that it is negotiable by the prospective employee. When asked about this at UAL the company said it was up to the union to set starting pay, when the IAM was asked they said it was up to the company.(???) Is that available at AA?
AMFA has also taken a strong position against outsourcing both at the company and governmental level on both the job and safety fronts. Remember the TWU "mother" organization the AFL/CIO took a position of support for outsourcing. When UAL wanted to send work overseas the company was told it would be up to the membership and the company rescinded their offer. There is presently a fight developing at NWA over cleaners in Seattle, the new spin by the company "They want to save money" (good luck in court on that one). Refer back to the previous paragraph regarding the Mesaba issue and the lay offs created by outsourcing.
On the issue of safety what is the TWU doing for the whistleblowers?AMFA recently sent a letter to both Marion Blakey and Norman Mineta regarding this. They did in fact save a mechanics job at UAL when the IAM was in place long "BEFORE" they represented mechanics there. There are no less than three whistleblower cases on record in the JFK area. What did the TWU do to support these people?
Retirees at UAL are being represented after a fight that AMFA had to win regarding the representation issue. Has the TWU taken a stance on the retirees from TWA? AMFA also attempted to win back the R&D at UAL and yes the arbitrator ruled against them(refer back to the Force Majure regarding arbitrations) based upon the thinly veiled language that the IAM put into place when they renegotiated the contract during the BK process. This language was hotly disputed by the mechanics but the changes barely managed to pass the vote. The IAM agreed to closing the OAK and IMC while stating they were fighting it.
Another issue is contract negotiations. These are all held in secret at the industrial unions but AMFA keeps them open to the members as well as posts progress reports in a timely fashion with the details of what was agreed to. This is unlike the posts that the UAL mechs got stating "We met with the company and plan to meet next week." What updates do the membership at AA get?
AMFA has also been a strong supporter of the the movement to set aside a day for the remberance of Charles Taylor and to get a bust of him made. What position has the TWU taken regarding anything to honor and support the memory of him?
That is a mere sampling of what AMFA has done and is doing. As AMFA grows their voice for the mechanics and related gets louder. Have they had failures? Yes. Will they continue to have failures? Yes. Will they continue the fight for the mechanics and related? Yes. Will they win more respect for the craft and class? Yes. They already blew the industry's mind when they won the PEB, the IAM made a lackluster attempt to do the same. Do they support the issues that the craft and class feel are important even though they know they may lose? Yes.
The one thing that is very different, that I would ask that you consider, is that when AMFA represents you "They" is actually "You and your peers" instead of "They" being an international that may or may not respect your collective groups desires depending upon what "They" feel is important. Maybe if you took the time away from this board and the TWU offices and looked deeply into the issues surrounding the mechanic and related craft and class objectively, especially if you hold and A&P cert.(I have not seen if you do or not) you might actually understand and possibly agree why there is such a movement for change. The information is there you have to take time to read it, comprehend it, and objectively review it before trying form and defend an opinion and position. This was not true in many of the cases of the IAM wannabes at UAL.

 

[Buck]

TWUer,

Since you believe I am questioning your "PATRIOTISM" , I have a question for you.

Are you aware of where your dues monies go and what they are used for in all aspects?

and BTW, I only asked a couple of questions. Now you call me stupid. I want to practice one of the freedoms you fought for and you slander me. If that is truly how you feel, than it does place you in the area of being hypocritical.

Whether or not I advocate what anyone else here says, has nothing to do with your service to the country. But while you are doing your duty on one end you could be defeating that purpose on the other. Do some research and see if you can answer the dues question.

Buck,
Let me first apologize for my temper. Some things are not meant to be criticized and I will leave it at that.

As for my dues. . .I have been with the TWU long enough to know where my dues are going and what they are being used for. But I have no doubt that you will add in your 2 cents worth. Where my dues go and my patriotism should not even be used in the same sentence if that's what you are getting at. If that's the case then attack everyone else who pays dues. That should keep you busy for quite sometime. You pay dues don't you?? does that make you less "patriotic"??

I am not sure where your reasoning comes in to play here on these boards because I still will not support amfa whatever spin you choose to put on the subject.

My service as a veteran to the United States of America was challenged by Proamfa and I took that challenge. You and Judy added more comments to feed the fire. Let's get off it shall we. . .

I never criticized you nor did I advocate any other recent post.

You became angry at someone and took it out on me. That is ok, I know you have your beliefs and philosophies and I will not attempt to change those even if I had that ability. I really do not care how you vote on any issue. You have stated that there will be no vote. Are you guaranteeing that? I would be interested in how you could arrange that.

If you know where your dues go and what they are used for, then there is no need for me to add my 2 cents. I did not ask you to divulge this information, I just asked if you were aware and you have answered that question.

I do not make it a practice of attacking anyone. Whether it is about their dues or not. I just find it hypocritical when someone states a position and then finances the opposition. If you are not doing so, then fine, then this is not about you.

And no I do not pay dues voluntarily, I am a dues objector and ensure that the union enforces Article 38 of the contract. But I am also on Agency Fee status. It would be my guess that you have been around long enough to know what those things are, so I need not inform you of these items. As for my patriotism, it is mine and mine alone, but I can assure you that I do not contradict mine by financing other than democratic principles. Of course you have stated that in your case that there is no comparison so again, this is not about you.

It does make me proud that I can have a conversation about our differing opinions and I do thank you for your service to our country. I guess you and I just see democracy in a different way.