Twu & Pensions

[Hopeful]

It's just a matter of time before AA "comes a knocking" on our door looking to freeze our pension because UAL, DAL, and USAir will have all done the same.

I would like to know the TWU's position NOW before we are forced into it.

And before anyone suggests that I contact the TWU directly, been there, done that!


No answer to any of my emails!

 

[Checking it Out]

Actually their is several articles out concerning this issue!!! AA has already admitted they have no intentions to change anything until negotiations!

And yes this is a major concern! If United is successful than Delta will follow with NWA right behind them! Since a quote from The NYT has already been published and with Alaska eliminating the defined pension you can bet that the Association who has started concessions on this issue has no way of stopping this trend!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

CIO,

Can I assume that you assume that AA will ask to freeze the pensions?

Aside from the fact that you are pro TWU and I am not, you have to admit that pension costs are one big cost that AA would love to be relieved of.

My big concern is the TWU's response when AA comes to the door with its hand out again.

Personally, I feel that pensions are becoming dinosaurus in nature. It is not just limited to airlines, but corporate America in general. I do feel that sooner or later, our pensions will be frozen and converted to the cash balance plan.

Since I have resigned myself to this probability, It would be easier to swallow if we got back everything we gave in return. Pension liability far outweigh what we gave in terms of concessions.

In response to AA waiting until contract openers, I disagree. That is two years away.
They are in the first year of a government blessed pension deferral plan. This takes them to 2006. I think they are going to want the pension plan changed before then so they will not have to make the "catch-up payments" to the plan.

Eliminating the pension as we now know it wil save billions and billions of dollars, not hundereds of millions.

Pensions are one of the last remaining differences between AA and the low cost carriers.

 

[Bob Owens]

The Twu's position?

All you have to do is look at the flyer sent out last January with the companys proposals, you know the one that wanted around a 2% paycut, leaving holidays, vacation etc intact with "Rejected" stamped across it. Instead three months later the came back with a 25% paycut and signed it into effect without further ratification.

With the TWU you can kiss your pension goodbye, plus another paycut, whats left of the benifits etc.

 

[Thrustfuljet]

How long have you people been with AA???

It doesn't matter what the twu thinks or say's on the subject right now cause when the time comes they will bend over to AA's every will and demand. Why would anything change that now?

Your better off planning for your own future on your own terms cause by the time AA management gets done running the company into the ground they will sit back with there garanteed pensions while we suck hind tit!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

CIO,

Can I assume that you assume that AA will ask to freeze the pensions?

Aside from the fact that you are pro TWU and I am not, you have to admit that pension costs are one big cost that AA would love to be relieved of.

My big concern is the TWU's response when AA comes to the door with its hand out again.

Personally, I feel that pensions are becoming dinosaurus in nature. It is not just limited to airlines, but corporate America in general. I do feel that sooner or later, our pensions will be frozen and converted to the cash balance plan.

Since I have resigned myself to this probability, It would be easier to swallow if we got back everything we gave in return. Pension liability far outweigh what we gave in terms of concessions.

In response to AA waiting until contract openers, I disagree. That is two years away.
They are in the first year of a government blessed pension deferral plan. This takes them to 2006. I think they are going to want the pension plan changed before then so they will not have to make the "catch-up payments" to the plan.

Eliminating the pension as we now know it wil save billions and billions of dollars, not hundereds of millions.

Pensions are one of the last remaining differences between AA and the low cost carriers.

Hopeful,

One of the concerns to the membership was the retirement plan. We have one of the stronger plans in the Airline system. Unfortunately competition will have a major impact. Several years ago I diversified our portfolio so we did not have to rely on social security or the pension plan. MY father was denied his pension due to unforsen circumstances. I promised not to get into that position.

Many of the members are not as fortunate. I will fight to insure our retires and future retires will have the best pension as possible. But if AA is not around how much due we collect?

The pension guarantee from the government is going broke and expects an influx in the next few years of defunct companies. The 401K is tied to the stock market which does not look promising either. Where does this leave us? I believe each individual will need to diversify their ability to save and hope for the best.

We can look towards the future in negotiations but none of us planed for what has been in store for the last several years.

 

[Rusty]

The twu was the first to allow members to pay for health care (prefund) for retirement.

 

[Checking it Out]

Suplimental Insurance, AA management lost this and tried to eliminate it last year for the TWU Members. I forone believe the 300,000 thousand extra is a good idea.

 

[Bob Owens]

Suplimental Insurance, AA management lost this and tried to eliminate it last year for the TWU Members. I forone believe the 300,000 thousand extra is a good idea.

Yea but you blast AMFA for giving into what the TWU gave into 15 years ago. The fact is that we have been paying into a fund to provide benifits that workers at most other major airlines got at no cost for the last 15 years. What the TWU gave up 15 years ago other unions only gave up in bankruptcy. In fact the TWU gave up more outside of bankruptcy than any other union gave up in Bankruptcy.

 

[proAMFA]

Bob,

Can you post AA's origninal proposal's on a pdf file this link?

 

[fix_airplanes]

1. Delta switched from defined benefit plan several years ago. They are the leader of this movement. There the guys will get (just me guessing) about 60-70% of original defined benefit. They also have something like a 7 year window which is going to close fairly soon now. Meaning if you want the old defined benefit money you must retire or quit regardless of age. Some guys are quitting at age 40+ to retain old plan. But that is just the way they set it up. Each company can do it their own way.

2. US Airways left everyone alone except the pilots. cuz there the pilots pension was the most expensive. US Airways gave the pilots pension to the PBGC with the promise of starting a new in house pension in the future.

Those are the 2 pensions at airlines that have made changes recently. Keep an eye on United. They are next up. After they make their move we (AA) will have a better idea which way the wind will be blowing.

 

[Radman]

REMEMBER GUYS LETS HOLD OUT FOR 2.5 IN 95, SORRY I MEAN 2001, OH NO I DID IT AGAIN; I MEAN IN 2006, THATS NOT RIGHT EITHER IS IT!!!!!! MAYBE IT WILL BE 2.5 IN 2009. THE twu IS WORKING HARD FOR THE RETIREES PENSION. :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually their is several articles out concerning this issue!!! AA has already admitted they have no intentions to change anything until negotiations!

Oh yea and that means a lot! Wasnt Carty saying all along that things were ok and that he was not going after our contracts as they(the company and the TWU) set us up for the "shock and awe" of 2003?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Relax everybody. The TWU says everything is OK. Remember our pension is guaranteed!