Tulsa MD-80 "Pulse Line" Frozen

[scorpion]

You're correct about the attrition without recalls, but in the past year, there have been 60 management hired off the street into maintenance, 47 of them being analysts or engineers in TUL. That leaves 13 for the rest of the system, Ken. Hardly what I'd call rampant hiring off the street. So, anyone else was alread on payroll, either as an AMT or elsewhere in management. If you're seeing something different, PM me and give me specifics. Anything else is a bucket of prop wash.

Just curious what these analysts jobs entail

For over a year the question of maintenance costs have come up at union meetings, shop meetings and even base meetings with the same answer "WE DONT KNOW HOW MUCH IT COST US TO DO IT". So whos job is it to do the accounting costs on different types of maintenance?

It would be nice to know what it would cost to outsource a heavy c check verses what the costs are to perform it inhouse. When I've asked this question all I was interested in was a ball park figure not a hair splitting exact number but the same response is given "WE DONT KNOW".

I'm all for keeping our jobs secure and willing to do whatever it takes to compete with the outside world but im not so eager to jump on board a program that doesnt give any real light at the end of the tunnel. Give us some real answers not some pie in the sky number (500 million) that doesnt hold any promise that the jobs will stay even if this goal is accomplished. If the mechanics at tul knew what we were truly up against competition wise we could analyze the pros and cons with the company on a wide range of variables such as turn times and quality of maintenance not just dollar amounts to get a better understanding where we stand with outside contractors.

If there where hard numbers for us to look at we would also know how much money we had to work with in getting back some of our concessions.
A pat on the back doesnt pay the bills and i also realize that not having a job has the same results but blind faith is hardly a motivater which is what we are working with.

But anyhow what is it that these people analyze?

 

[eolesen]

If you're not getting the answers, it's probably not because it hasn't been looked at -- cutting the data the way you're describing is exactly what I expect my analysts to do. But I doubt the average production supervisor or hangar manager would know who to ask to get that level of detail. If you're really interested in chasing it down, PM me.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

It would be nice to know what it would cost to outsource a heavy c check verses what the costs are to perform it inhouse. When I've asked this question all I was interested in was a ball park figure not a hair splitting exact number but the same response is given "WE DONT KNOW".

There are other things to consider, that may or may not come under "costs".

Quality. Chop shops are notorious for unskilled, untrained, unlicensed, illiterate workers. And they don't have much in the line of equipment or tooling. Even parts are a problem.

Stability. Not only the workers, but the management turnover is pretty high in chop shops. AA's workers and managers are much more experienced.

Dependability. AA can respond more quickly to a potential delay than a chop shop.

Flexibility. In-house maintenance can be fine tuned daily, or completely revamped to suit AA's needs on a moment's notice.

 

[eolesen]

There are other things to consider, that may or may not come under "costs".

You also have to remember that many of the outsourced vendors are privately held, and don't report their financials, which makes it even more difficult to figure out their actual costs.

 

[TWU informer]

Hey now wait just a minute.

According to Former ModerAAtor we will also have to consider and compare the revenue of our maintenance competition.

He earlier claimed that using cost only without comparing revenue is not quality accounting.

 

[eolesen]

Hey now wait just a minute.

According to Former ModerAAtor we will also have to consider and compare the revenue of our maintenance competition.

He earlier claimed that using cost only without comparing revenue is not quality accounting.

Uh, what's your point? Yes, you need both in order to forecast profitibility. If you have a cost estimate of what a competitor is looking to charge for the same service, you don't need to know how much they're making off the deal to figure out if it's cheaper.

 

[AMFAMAN]

If you happen to subscribe to Overhaul and Maintenance Magazine, January 2006 issue has a good breakdown of maintenance costs per ASM at all the airlines. The info must be correct because it was done by AA and the twu's friend - ECLAT.

FM or FWAAA maybe you can answer the one question I do have about this comparison. I tried emailing ECLAT but they never replied back.

Under A/C Maintenance per ASM (cents) - AA is at .99 for 2005 down from 1.07 in 2000 and a high of 1.30 in 2002.

They break down that number further into Airframe .29 for 2005, Engine .30 for 2005, and "Other including Burden" .41 for 2005.
The question is what is "other including burden."

By comparison to other airlines, our cost is either at or real close to the legacy carriers except DL. For example for 2005...
AA .99
CAL .94
Delta .80
NWA .98
UAL 1.14
US .96

LCC's...
Airtran .80
America West .93
ATA .68
Frontier .89
Jetblue .55 - steadily rising each year
Spirit 1.28
Southwest .78 -

 

[eolesen]

The question is what is "other including burden."

I'll check on Monday, but my guess is that's stuff like interior mods and general overhead costs for keeping rotables, spares, etc. for anything not related to the structure or the powerplant.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I'll check on Monday, but my guess is that's stuff like interior mods and general overhead costs for keeping rotables, spares, etc. for anything not related to the structure or the powerplant.

FM...

Just wondering if you ever found out that info?

 

[scorpian]

I'll check on Monday, but my guess is that's stuff like interior mods and general overhead costs for keeping rotables, spares, etc. for anything not related to the structure or the powerplant.

FM
It would be great if the .99 could be broken down even further to see what our (maintenance) management burden is and to also compare management burden just for maintenance to other carriers and even mro facilities.

 

[eolesen]

Asked, but didn't get an answer. If this is an ECLAT developed cost model, they won't release the math because 1) people can question their model and 2) other consultants can duplicate it....

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Went to a CI meeting today and the pulse line was brought up.
Was just wondering how the pulse line was doing in Tulsa still pumping out the 12 day checks.
Has it become a junior bid because no one wants to be involved.
Curious
B)

 

[TWU informer]

Went to a CI meeting today and the pulse line was brought up.
Was just wondering how the pulse line was doing in Tulsa still pumping out the 12 day checks.
Has it become a junior bid because no one wants to be involved.
Curious
B)

Pulse line is on schedule.

Of course they are working overtime to be that way.

At least someone is getting some cash out of this PIG!

 

[767 mechanic]

Pulse line is on schedule.

Of course they are working overtime to be that way.

At least someone is getting some cash out of this PIG!

How many mechanics are there on each line? I was told that there is approx 140 on each line.

 

[eolesen]

Pulse line is on schedule.

Of course they are working overtime to be that way.

So, the concept works if it's staffed correctly?

Shocking.

I think the whole thing is designed to fail

By your own admission, it appears that your prediction was wrong.

Also shocking.

FEAR Worship

FEAR Monger

FEAR Propagation

We have nothing to FEAR, but FEAR itself.

Looks like the fear worship, propagation, and mongering on your part didn't work, D.