galleyguy4u2
Senior
- Aug 9, 2003
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Excellent post.!!!!
Trip Report/Comment--AA JFK-MIA-JFK
- Thread starter Art at ISP
- Start date
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Excellent post.!!!!
OP
Art at ISP
Veteran
- Thread Starter
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- #33
Bob,
Your points are shortsighted and just plain wrong. The bottom line is you have to have customers. If more like me get turned off they take their higher yield business travel elsewhere--then WHERE does the company get the revenue to even consider giving you raises? In another thread it stated that AA has the lowest operating margin of any of the majors? Why is that? Are they paying you TOO much? Doubtful. Are employees showing their frustration to customers and driving them away? Perhaps. Is AA mismanaged? Probably. Are there archaeic work rules which need to be changed to allow for better efficiencies? Probably. Also, AA is the only major carrier to post a loss last quarter....so you think they are going to come running to you with money?
Where is the pride workers are supposed to have in their job performance? That's a VALID question. And DON'T you DARE blame the lack of pride on management...that excuse doesn't fly. If you're not prepared to do your job to the best of your ability, you don't deserve to have that job...in ANY company in ANY industry.
Oh and since you wanted to know about fare paid, my fare yielded AA about 20 cents a seat mile--MORE than enough to be a profitable transaction for the company. I do NOT support irrationally low fares, and never have.
I am no fan of management, but I stand by my statement that taking it out on customers is just plain wrong.
So please take your union rhetoric elsewhere--that is NOT the issue here.
To those who responded with apologies and similar comments, thank you....
Your points are shortsighted and just plain wrong. The bottom line is you have to have customers. If more like me get turned off they take their higher yield business travel elsewhere--then WHERE does the company get the revenue to even consider giving you raises? In another thread it stated that AA has the lowest operating margin of any of the majors? Why is that? Are they paying you TOO much? Doubtful. Are employees showing their frustration to customers and driving them away? Perhaps. Is AA mismanaged? Probably. Are there archaeic work rules which need to be changed to allow for better efficiencies? Probably. Also, AA is the only major carrier to post a loss last quarter....so you think they are going to come running to you with money?
Where is the pride workers are supposed to have in their job performance? That's a VALID question. And DON'T you DARE blame the lack of pride on management...that excuse doesn't fly. If you're not prepared to do your job to the best of your ability, you don't deserve to have that job...in ANY company in ANY industry.
Oh and since you wanted to know about fare paid, my fare yielded AA about 20 cents a seat mile--MORE than enough to be a profitable transaction for the company. I do NOT support irrationally low fares, and never have.
I am no fan of management, but I stand by my statement that taking it out on customers is just plain wrong.
So please take your union rhetoric elsewhere--that is NOT the issue here.
To those who responded with apologies and similar comments, thank you....
We are now working understaffed on some of our widebodies, including the JFK-MIA. A purser friend of mine worked a JFK-MIA 76 turn minus one flight attendant. I worked a SFO 76 trip minus 1 fa both ways. That affects our service as well. Asian airlines, if rarely, ever go out understaffed. SIA operates the A380 with 30 fas. US airlines are not generously staffed. Passengers do not know any of this. I apologized to a C class customer for our slow service, explaining that we were short staffed and he was understanding. I worked both galley and aisle while the other aisle fa went to help out in coach. Catering in SFO yersterday morning was screwed up after an extensive delay due to our FO being reassigned to another flight. We ended up swapping carts, sharing items between F and C class galley. Do passengers know about this, do they care? Most likely not. I'm not excusing lazy co workers but there are a lot of factors that affect the service.
If you are not happy with the service, contact AA. If they get enough complaints, then they'll do something.
OP
Art at ISP
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- #35
Actually I contacted AA directly on Friday night, after my return. And as expected, I have not as yet received a response 5 days later. Not to belabor a point, but I recently contacted Delta about an issue and received a reply within 24 hours.
I understand short staffing, we all have to do more with less. My point was not so regarding the product as it was attitude and the apparent desire to avoid customer interaction--more of an intangible but obvious nontheless. At least you chose to speak with a customer, when there was a delay...in this case there was no issue with product, again, it was the apparent desire to do the minimum and disappear to the jumpseats or galleys and chat or read.
I would not be surprised if I do not receive a reply from AA, which in my mind is equally as bad.
I understand short staffing, we all have to do more with less. My point was not so regarding the product as it was attitude and the apparent desire to avoid customer interaction--more of an intangible but obvious nontheless. At least you chose to speak with a customer, when there was a delay...in this case there was no issue with product, again, it was the apparent desire to do the minimum and disappear to the jumpseats or galleys and chat or read.
I would not be surprised if I do not receive a reply from AA, which in my mind is equally as bad.
He was in FIRST class. There is NO excuse for the manner in which he was treated.
Please it was a 2 hr flight..... And remember there are two sides to every story....
JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
Length of the flight isn't relevant, we're talking about a First Class Passenger being treated poorly and you're blowing it off like he should have been grateful for the opportunity to have paid extra to be given the "I'm an American Airlines Flight Attendant and I don't care" stare.
How sad that my fellow AA flight attendants feel the need to justify poor service. There is NO justification. I told a fellow flight attendant recently that life was way to short to work at a job she seemed to hate as much as this one. And, don't give me the "I took a paycut in 2003" argument. So did I, along with a 17 month furlough. That ship has sailed. If you are not being paid what you think you are worth, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution outlawing slavery has not been repealed. No one is forcing you to stay.
We can all blather all we want about "We are not sky waiters and waitresses. We are safety professionals." Ok, and the public will still expect us to bring them a glass of water and answer questions. As far as I know, there is no part of my job description that says I am responsible for keeping the jumpseat in the down position by sitting on it. In fact, my fondest wish is that the day I retire from American, I can say, "You know. All that safety stuff we did at recurrent training every year was a total waste of time. I never needed any of it."
Art, please accept my apology for your experience. And, please believe that not all AA flight attendants are like the ones you encountered on your trip.
Jim, you and I both know that APFA protects lazy and bad flight attendants but cannot even aovid a 2 month "involuntary" furlough where good people are forced to collect unemployment for two months. Art, I do hope your next flight on American is better.
This thread really sums up my observations and feelings having flown in many international carriers such as JAL, Korean Air, Asiana, British Airways, SWISS, El Al, Air France and fine US carriers like Delta or Continental. AA really, really has some excellent employees that are capable of and would like to provide first rate service to all passengers however it seems lately some combination of irritable customers, deterioration of employee morale management cost cutting and pay concessions have placed this matter aside.
I had a lovely crew on an early AM LAX-JFK in 3-class First class that acknowledged every customer by his/her name, frequently checked to ensure glasses were full, passengers were well fed and happy. I spoke to the FA in the galley and presented her an AAplause card and she said "I'm serving as an ambassador to AA. My customers like you make my job possible and keep this company viable. Providing poor service not only reflects on me, but my colleagues and our company overall".
As a passenger this really, really is disturbing but I must say I'd prefer consistent, professional service from Continental or Delta as opposed to hit or miss superb service along with lackluster, disgruntled, surly service at other times. I'm not saying anyone individual or carrier is perfect (everyone can have bad days) but it seems AA is getting the reputation of UAL or NWA with APFAs vindictive, unprofessional buttons campaign and threat of striking. I'd like to support AA and AA flight attendants, but I'm not prepared to be stranded at an airport when I have work commitments or could be spending time withy my wife.
Labor is not entirely the one to blame. AA management seems to have allowed the company to be backed into a corner and is at a strategic disadvantage. In roughly three years AA has gone from #1 to #3 US carrier. The MD-80s have been on borrowed time and they are finally being replaced with 737-800s but not quickly enough. AA really needs to do capital improvements like new business class seats (NGBC product wasn't even competitive when it was launched in 2006), new First class (Flagship suite is from 1999!!!), AVOD in all international and transcon routes at least (I think 763/757 International config at the very, very least), new Admirals Club-BOS, JFK, DFW-D, MIA-D, etc are either new or recently renovated but others like LGA, SFO, STL are in desperate need of attention. The Flagship Lounge is nothing but a joke compared to foreign carrier lounges. Management has decided that AA only flies to a handful of European markets and has been unwilling to enter secondary markets like Edinburgh, Oslo, Valencia or resume destinations like Stockholm. AA has minimal presence in Asia and no presence in the Middle East or Africa. I'd really like to see JFK/MIA-TLV-Delta and Continental seem to be making money hand over fist on these routes. Another example-why doesn't AA fly to Dubai? Dubai has no direct link from O'Hare and AA could really land itself in a superior position before Emirates or UAL decide to launch the route. AA is killing many routes that customers like myself depend on, most notably BOS-SFO and ORD-FRA.
Josh
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
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- Banned
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Passengers do prefer consistent service.... all the bells and whistles... IFE, new seats, mean nothing absent decent service regardless of the airline.
Josh,
With all due respect, have you written to AA regading this. Your letter has very valid points, and nobody want's a strike, however a letter to AA urging them to negotiate
fairly, with viable improvemts would help. I like working at AA and don't take things from mg out on others, but one thing I know is they (AA) will not give an inch until forced to and that is when, passengers like yourself write with concern of being stranded somewhere, or it's the 11th hour.
I can not speak for my fellow flight attendants, but what I can do is give an honest days work and be pleasant to all around me.
I hope you will take the time to write Mr. Arpey and the BOD.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Josh is right about the hard product observations.
As for the network.... airline enthusiasts make lousy network planners.
DXB is a non-starter by all accounts. There's no way AA can ever compete with Emirates on either service or price. They're an all-widebody carrier with a huge network of beyond-markets that pales in comparison on a volume basis to the feed AA could provide from any of their hubs. Carriers currently flying to DXB from anywhere other than HOU wouldn't be if there wasn't all the lucrative government paid travel for them to tap into (Fly America act requires all that travel to be on a US carrier flight, or on a US carrier codeshare flight if one exists on a non-US carrier). UA, CO and DL can tap into that from IAD, EWR and JFK. CO can make IAH-DXB work on oil revenue.
DFW-DXB might be a better option, but since it's 1000 miles longer than DFW-BJS is, it's a non starter under the current APA contract.
TLV? Read up on your history. Israel still wants to hold AA responsible for TWA's obligations when they pulled out of TLV prior to the acquisition closing in 2001. It's also a junk market. Lots of volume, huge security costs, and historically low margins. Not exactly a hot spot for travel from DFW or ORD. Maybe moreso from JFK or MIA, but those markets are pretty well covered by the incumbents.
If EDI were profitable, you'd see more people flying there. CO makes it work from the oil business perspective, but even BA sees no reason to fly it, and they've got home court advantage... Likewise with OSL and VLC. That's like expecting nonstops to London to Tucson or Indianapolis.
ARN? Made sense in the telecom boom -- Ericsson shipped a lot of switching gear from ARN on AA before they imploded (along with Nortel), but now they've really retreated to mostly the handset market and sold off their switching/infrastructure segment. Doubtful if anyone could make it work today without the FQTV link to SK (Star Alliance).
As for the network.... airline enthusiasts make lousy network planners.
DXB is a non-starter by all accounts. There's no way AA can ever compete with Emirates on either service or price. They're an all-widebody carrier with a huge network of beyond-markets that pales in comparison on a volume basis to the feed AA could provide from any of their hubs. Carriers currently flying to DXB from anywhere other than HOU wouldn't be if there wasn't all the lucrative government paid travel for them to tap into (Fly America act requires all that travel to be on a US carrier flight, or on a US carrier codeshare flight if one exists on a non-US carrier). UA, CO and DL can tap into that from IAD, EWR and JFK. CO can make IAH-DXB work on oil revenue.
DFW-DXB might be a better option, but since it's 1000 miles longer than DFW-BJS is, it's a non starter under the current APA contract.
TLV? Read up on your history. Israel still wants to hold AA responsible for TWA's obligations when they pulled out of TLV prior to the acquisition closing in 2001. It's also a junk market. Lots of volume, huge security costs, and historically low margins. Not exactly a hot spot for travel from DFW or ORD. Maybe moreso from JFK or MIA, but those markets are pretty well covered by the incumbents.
If EDI were profitable, you'd see more people flying there. CO makes it work from the oil business perspective, but even BA sees no reason to fly it, and they've got home court advantage... Likewise with OSL and VLC. That's like expecting nonstops to London to Tucson or Indianapolis.
ARN? Made sense in the telecom boom -- Ericsson shipped a lot of switching gear from ARN on AA before they imploded (along with Nortel), but now they've really retreated to mostly the handset market and sold off their switching/infrastructure segment. Doubtful if anyone could make it work today without the FQTV link to SK (Star Alliance).
NYGiantsFan90
Corn Field
- Oct 23, 2003
- 246
- 41
- Banned
- #44
EE,
TLV is one of US Airways most profitable routes and are thinking about adding a second flight, CO flies 777 from EWR, DL is now flying 747-400s to TLV, there is money to be made there and US, CO and DL are taking advantage of that, as well as EL AL flying 747s and 777s from the TLV to the US.
TLV is one of US Airways most profitable routes and are thinking about adding a second flight, CO flies 777 from EWR, DL is now flying 747-400s to TLV, there is money to be made there and US, CO and DL are taking advantage of that, as well as EL AL flying 747s and 777s from the TLV to the US.
Good insight in the rest of your post but considering APA as a barrier to entry for any Ultra Long Haul city pair is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
The big stumbling block is that APA prefers 2 Captains and 2 FO's as relief pilots. The 2 Captain stance is because the long haul flights may approach 20 hours. Should 1 Captain be in totally in charge of the aircraft and crew for that length of time? It could be something to be considered. I had heard that DAL flys LAX to SYD with 2 and 2, but that's just hearsay.
Another thing to consider is that the difference in salary for APA's current position is about $70/hour. If AA is going to walk away from a new long haul route based on $70/hour for somehting that would probably be solved in the current pilot Section 6 process anyways, I doubt the pilots were the problem in the first place. DFW-PEK anyone?
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