Time to Monger a Rumor!

[hp_fa]

5. Judge Wake did not allow the jury to hear any of the case law supporting USAPA's position and this will form a majority of the appeal.

Juries don't hear case law.

Perhaps you were referring to the jury instructions that USAPA's counsel sought and were not permitted?

 

[jimntx]

Anyway. I don't know if you're aware. But apparently there is too much capacity in the skies - or so they say - and there needs to be consolidation. If US Airways and American Airlines merge - that would be called consolidation.

Consolidation reduces capacity only if some of the a/c are grounded. Since AMR does not care for Airbus equipment, guess which side would be providing the grounded a/c.

I know you are all crowing about your quarterly profit. May I suggest you go try to pay some of your bills with that "on paper" profit. Creditors tend to want cash, not accounting exercises.

Trust me. I don't think AMR wants anything to do with you anymore than you want anything to do with AMR.

 

[captainJack]

"(LGA) is an operation that loses a lot of money, it's the least profitable, most unprofitable flying that we have" (Scott Kirby 07/29/09)

If Kirby were trying to make a deal with other carriers regarding properties, assets and/or liabilities in LGA, why, ever, would he make such a comment?

 

[captainJack]

Juries don't hear case law.

I take your statement to indicate that usually jurors do not hear case law.

I did as a juror. Federal court. Judge seemed very careful about the explanation and interpretation.

 

[hp_fa]

Instructions are based in case law and will be used, but the juries never know they are hearing things based in case law. Hell, most jury members don't even know what case law is, nor that 90% of the law in this country is case law as opposed to constitutional or statutory law.

 

[captainJack]

Instructions are based in case law and will be used, but the juries never know they are hearing things based in case law.

As I said, the judge was quite careful.

Is there law, Federal, State or local that states "case law" will not be used? I'd like to hear whether your statements are ones of fact or simply opinion (though your opinion reflects more experience, and, therefore, is, in professional circles, more highly regarded than opinions posted by most of us legal puppies here).

 

[US1YFARE]

Instructions are based in case law and will be used, but the juries never know they are hearing things based in case law. Hell, most jury members don't even know what case law is, nor that 90% of the law in this country is case law as opposed to constitutional or statutory law.

I think you are being a bit hypertechnical.

 

[FWAAA]

So STL is doing so well and RDU is going gangbusters?

No, and that's why I assume that AA has eliminated the RDU hub and has significantly downsized (I like to call it "Pittsburghed") the STL hub.

No one particularly wants to be part of AA but you hear this stuff so is it not pertinent to ask?

Sure, and the same small group of posters ask it over and over and over again in multiple threads.

Apparently everything is set in stone at AA and nothing will ever change - keep thinking that way.

Huh?

If you haven't noticed from earlier posts that it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense and is not desirable from our point of view.

Yet, just like the posts from a certain shuttle captain, it keeps getting posted over and over again.

Please read the whole thread when visiting.

I was responding to your original post (the first post in this thread) and I read all other responses prior to posting mine.

Okay how does a passenger get routed on AA from RIC, ORF, GSO, to TPA? Just one example. AA's east coast, north - south service stinks.

I agree with you. I'm also pretty certain that AA couldn't care less about getting someone from RIC, ORF or GSO to TPA. No airline has logical connections from every backwater to Tampa or every other major city. You can't be all things to all people - just look at US. How does a passenger get routed on US from DFW to LAX? Or DFW to anywhere? Or any US city to GRU? Or EZE? Or SCL?

 

[US1YFARE]

I'm also pretty certain that AA couldn't care less about getting someone from RIC, ORF or GSO to TPA. No airline has logical connections from every backwater to Tampa or every other major city. You can't be all things to all people - just look at US. How does a passenger get routed on US from DFW to LAX? Or DFW to anywhere? Or any US city to GRU? Or EZE? Or SCL?

US from DFW to LAX--via PHX or LAS of course. Or. on UA since they are part of *A.
If to East Coast, then via CLT or PHL. If West Coast, via PHX or LAX or UA's DEN, LAX, or ORD hubs.
AA is definitely week on the East Coast. I have tried to fly them, but can't because it is too difficult unless all of my travel is Midwest or on the West Coast. Unlike the other airline alliances, AA only has AA domestically, no other option. In *A, I have US, UA, and soon CO. On SkyTeam, after CO leaves, DL covers so much ground effectively, they don't really need a domestic partner to fill in the gaps. AA doesn't have that luxury.

 

[john john]

I think the APA and USAPA would be a great fit. The APA got to impose a seniority integration favorable to them on the TWA pilots and USAPA attempted to do that to the AWA pilots. A marriage made in heaven.

What is APA bylaws language on merging seniority? The judge in Arizona is having a big impact on pilot seniority and applying it to RLA and unions and law. Any problems with future and present merging of pilot’s seniority on US property will be muck up by the judge in Arizona

 

[hp_fa]

As I said, the judge was quite careful.

Is there law, Federal, State or local that states "case law" will not be used?

US1YFARE is probably correct, I was likely being hypertechnical.

Jury instructions are fashioned with lay people in mind, not lawyers. They are supposed to reflect the law so the jury understands as much of the law as is required in order to make a judgment on guilt/innocence (criminal law) or responsible/not responsible (civil law). The fashioning of the jury instructions falls to the judge, who accepts input from the trial counsel in fashioning the jury instructions. The jury instructions given must reflect the law but often, as was in the case here, there are disputes about which laws are controlling and/or more applicable to the facts and theories presented at trial.

My hypertechnical point is that juries do not generally know what the source of the jury instructions was or how the instructions were fashioned, only that the judge is instructing them on what he/she thinks they need to know in order to reach a decision on the facts presented at trial on the legal theories of the parties. What USAPA will likely largely be arguing in their appeal is that the judge improperly instructed the jury because he didn't use or reflect proper case law in fashioning his instructions to the jury.

My opinion, after having carefully read the 53-page Findings of Fact and Law, is that the judge did not commit reversible error in crafting the instructions.

 

[john john]

US1YFARE is probably correct, I was likely being hypertechnical.

The jury instructions given must reflect the law but often, as was in the case here, there are disputes about which laws are controlling and/or more applicable to the facts and theories presented at trial.

What USAPA will likely largely be arguing in their appeal is that the judge improperly instructed the jury because he didn't use or reflect proper case law in fashioning his instructions to the jury.

My opinion, after having carefully read the 53-page Findings of Fact and Law, is that the judge did not commit reversible error in crafting the instructions.

Do they have a case?
In your opinion

 

[hp_fa]

Who?

The jury's opinion was that USAPA committed a breach of it's duty of fair representation. The court agreed with that and entered an order based on that. The 9th Circuit is a long way from stating its opinion in this case.

 

[TheGreatOz]

Just a short comment on USA320Pilot's link to the letter of " Careful what you wish for", I thought this was a very well thought out note. I am not a pilot and not knowing all the background I believe it was very well thought out and supplied good information, so that a Noob could understand it.

 

[FWAAA]

US from DFW to LAX--via PHX or LAS of course.

D'Oh! My example was nonsensical. Sorry about that.

Unless you want a nonstop flight from Texas to the West Coast. Then a stop in PHX or LAS isn't all that desirable.

What about DFW-Houston? Or DFW-Austin? Or DFW to anywhere in Texas? What about DFW-MSY? How about MIA-TPA or MIA-MCO?

I agree that US has some better coverage in certain parts of the US. I simply disagree that CLT is the key to prosperity.