Avtech04, I realize you are not responding to my post's anymore, as you said you wouldnt, however I thought another point of view could be helpful for others to make an informed decision of what actually happened/is happening between SWA and AT. Cheers.
Didn't see this coming!
- Thread starter grmach1
- Start date
Wow, I said delusional but now see I was understimating your mind and attitude, you want Swa people to welcome you when you say "AT group is giving swa employees a boost in their senority for ABSOLUTELY NOYHING! So by absolutely nothing you mean that the last 20 years those same SWA employees fought tooth and nail to get those industry leading contracts that you are walking intowas simply for fun, the years those employees worked for peanuts was for nothing, so all those doubles they pulled so the company could still run on a skeleton crew was NOTHING,, u sure know how to compliment ,,so on behalf of all Swa employees who have worked their butts off with sub-standard contracts and lifestlyes, in sometimes horrible conditions giving up family time and $$$ to make SWA POWERFUL enough to write a check for your little company , I would like to thank you and all like you for your lack of respect and appreciation!! Welcome and here is your well deserved payraise and o yea silly me,,here is your DOH because what kind of hosts would we be if we didn't give you EVERYTHING,, and don't even mention it no thanks needed
To those poor f/a s who may have to commute I feel soooo bad, but the 750,000$ raise over the next 20-25 years should,make it easier to handle, but then again if you are an example of the attitude of AT that is not enough so lets give more. O yea u seem to convienetly forget to mention that those based in atl get doh,,so that might be the giving upNOTHING u mentioned,,,wow 750,000$ to upgrade companies,,my heart goes out to them,, or maybe u meant NOTHING was what they had to do to get that raise and better company,,its a little unclear
You talked to a few fa's and they told you happy sappy stories, good for yu but obviously you are not smart enough to realize that they were being politically correct, every and I mean every fa I talk to would happily give up the measly "boost" in seniority in trade for the attitudes like yousr and the headaches they see in the futurefrom this deal.
I have said it many times, as a business deal this may one day go down as brilliant. On the human nature and company culture side of things its beginning to look like a nightmare in the making, again I hate to use reality because of your delusion state you seem to like living in! Don't you ever tell a SWA employee they don't have a dog in this fight because again you were not here fighting for livable contracts, fair working conditions, and help make this little company big enough to Buy your little near bankrupt company,,those who as u say gave up Nothing have fought years and have too many battle scars to have to listen to you or anyone at AT WHO has the audacity to rant and lecture them,, u are NOW a part their SWA they are NOT and never wanted to be a part of YOUR AT,,a tremendous difference
Please take a moment and explain what a Swa employee PERSONALLY GAINED, let me say it again PERSONALLY GAINED from this possible employee nightmare, was it a huge pay raise,,nope,,was it a upgrade in contract,,nope...was it being bought by a better company,,nope,,was it saving another company from near future bankruptcy giving a large group of employees years of job stability ,,nope...o yea it is now they get near international travel,,whoohoo..so the Big Winners are yep u guessed it AT employees and shareholders,,,I know you in your delusional world don't like competition and winning and losing but the rest of the real world sees the reality...so the REAL NOTHING PERRSONALLY award goes to original swa and yet you think u have the right to demand and lecture,,simply OBTUSE.sorry Av- that means. Lacking insight or discernment or in your case,,slow to learn or understand,,
Again sorry to interrupt your delusion but I NEVER said staple, that's not fair, but who at AT understands fair and equitable?? I have yet to see any attitude of gratitude and have not heard any stories to show that,,actually I was in the center of your universe ATL the other day and we asked a 10 year swa employee after being in Atl what are the chances this could go smoothly? His answer, a snowballs chance in hell, the attitudes, pompousness and self absorbtion I have seen from the fa's and pilots is truly unreal!! Fa's come up and EXPECT TO PREBOARD when non reving, wow,,and very few acknowledge us or say hi(not my words).....so seems far more attitude and very little gratitude..that reality has to scare even you AV and we know your delusional so what does it say to us original SWA employees,,its says buckle up we are expecting some severe turbulence in the next 10 -20 years...Just when I was hoping we could all just get along
I would be happy to crawl back under that rock but I can't get under it because you are standing on top of it screaming your delusional rants tryin to convince anyone who will listen that SWA EMPLOYEES SHOULD THANK THEIR LUCKY STARS that AT came in and saved them,,,so come down please so I can go back under that rock,, I was nice enough to call your Dr and he gave me a full bottle of the meds you are supposed to be taking, so here take 3 of these and go crawl into your corner and have fun w your make believe friends in your make believe world!! Where there are no winners and no losers, just everyone holding hands and singing kum by yaa''
Funny thing is no matter what contract u get it will be better than your current one, and for a bigger better company,, now most nin delusional people would consider that a big WIN,,oops sorry small doses of reality for you,, to much at one time may have adverse affects on your meds,,sorry
When I stop hearing ridiculous comments and un warranted rants from seemingly ungrateful new employees I will step back, I tried to stay in the shadows but so hard to do with so much ignorance still to cnquer..lol,,just trying to hand out one dose of the truth... one response at a time..lol
o yea AV, please don't respond to this,, I hate seeing you keep slipping more and more delusional..u seem like a decent guy but the contract battle isn't the only thing u seem to be losing..take the energy from your non response and PULL IT TOGETHER MAN
Personally i don't care if it never gets done (at this point), the only one losing out is AT. Just so you know I'm still a no to 4 years .... and i'm not alone !! partly due to AT's attitude and partly due to the company's attitude. take it for what its worth ...
DONT worry, AV is too much of a control freak to not read your posts, now can he understand the logic and reality of those posts is a totally different issue
DONT worry, AV is too much of a control freak to not read your posts, now can he understand the logic and reality of those posts is a totally different issue
BoeingBoy
Veteran
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As an outsider looking in, all I can say is that there was an opportunity for everyone to come out ahead - there were plenty of cookies for everyone to get their fill - but the fighting over how many cookies this or that person wants is making everyone losers instead - the cookies were all broken into crumbs underfoot during the fighting so nobody can have any now. Hopefully the vocal voices here are a small minority.
Jim
Jim
Not sure what cookies or crumbs you are talking about here Jim,, not one, let me repeat that NOT ONE swa employee will be receiving a cookie or a crumb let alone a 40% payraise on their paycheck. Actually I fear it will be the opposite, strategists have estimated SWA PAID over 500$ million too much for the AT operation. I am no numbers guru but facing that number and an across the board raise to 7 thousand employees scares many at SWA and many seem to feel concessions coming in the next few years. No I am not blaming the AT employees, the company did what it thought was right but to make up that kinda revenue is simply hard to imagine. sWAhas made many brilliant moves so lets hope this is another one and doesn't blow up in their face. So you see no cookies real or perceived come payday for any SWA employee some may get a sniff of the cookie if they are online behind a former AT employee at the bank.
Cast me as then bad apple or what ever adjective you wish, but I will simply keep pointing out the comments and feelings of the many I talk w, its not all rosey and full of group hugs..most see it as bareable at best and hope the culture isn't ruined with bad newcomer attitudes and work ethic..still have AT girls saying there is no way they will clean a plane etc..the train is in motion so we shall see, Apprehension would be a huge understatement
AVTECH, breathe, slow calm breaths keep focused and PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER MAN
AvTech04
Senior
Okay, for those reading these psychotic rantings, I never stated that Airtran was SWA Savior!! I don't know where or what you guys are reading here!! I was actually justifying the reasons GK spent 3.4 billion of SWA's money on Airtran, but you guys and your brilliant wittiness don't realize that the more you bash the 'uselessness' of the Airtran Acquisition, the dumber you make SWA look.. but okay, whatever.. Maybe it was a mistake. So please, continue to batter your own CEO and the SWA boards decision..
O my psychotic rantings of reality, yep thats it... if you think the attitudes of the AT employees will and does go un noticed by 35000 SWA employees then that would fall under Psychotic. I am sorry you cant understand the truth and thats your cross to bare..
As a whole, excluding the mechs few moments of fairness.. The AT group as a whole seems to have taken a tremendous gift and lifestyle improvements and instead of quietly celebrated and thanked their lucky stars,, they found a way to play the boisterous Victim and screamed and demanded and demanded..
To a group of employees(SWA) that would be recieving NOTHING to gain and only seniority to HOPE for , this set off an avalanche of frustration and down right anger for many,,
You dont believe me, then go look back at the arrogance in AUG and the boards. How many AT people were demanding DOH, how many AT depts were screaming poor victim? How many were calling SWA arrogant, AT Pilots, FA's , Mechs, ground ops, dispatchers etc.. all seemed to come in demanding and overplaying their hand and Over valuing their company,, many lessons learned.
So from the egos of Miraculous 7(AT pilots who are now on indefinite leave) all the way to the AT dispatchers who got handed a -4 year, it seems that this whole thing could of been avoided IF ONLY , only there was an ounce of Gratitude shown, and ounce of apprecitation..or the perception of it.
What would of been fair??? The AT groups come in saying, We appreciate all that you SWA employees have done and as we are all just employees, we would like to offer You 4-6 years seniority boost seeing as we at AT are all getting HUGE payraise and benefit packages,, and thank you each and every SWA employee for your dedicated years of work and contracts you all have fought so hard over the years to obtain... That alone would of changed the destiny of SWA forever but it didnt happen and the Divide may be far to great to close, the animosity felt by many at SWA for the percieved lack of respect, the demands , the attitudes past, present, and future may not ever be healed,.
Now I agree with AV because for the first time I realize that I am psychotic, psychotic to have ever believed that AT as a group would of done such a thing, to be fair and respectful and to realize what they were getting was HUGE and what the SWA employee was getting was only a fight, not for life upgrades or benies but only a fight to KEEP their Seniority,, Wow,
We are all just working employees and now working for the same company,, Good luck to us all and Hope to god it will possibly work out for the best!!!
AvTech04
Senior
What are you talking about?? You've really gone off the loose end haven't you?? You actually spent the time, in front of your computer to post the exact same thing you posted a year ago... Seriously, step aside!
First, you're telling me that 35,000 SWA employees are all reading these forums and interpreting the information they read exactly as you have, then you say that AT has not been generous or forthcoming enough because no one graveled are SWA employees feet. I'm tired of going round and round with you.. you're wasting mine and everybody else's time with information that has already been acknowledged months and months ago. AT employees simply did what any and every SWA employee would've done if they had been in the exact situation as we are.. They wouldn't of cared about the money or anything else as long as they got to keep exactly what they already have, which is fair in my eyes. SWA offered AT the money and the benefits, without any of us asking for it, and at the same time, the employees demanded that we pay for the money and benefits with our seniority. Our argument was why?? We at AT are already at the bottom of the seniority scale with DOH and you guys are giving AT the benefits that SWA employees already receive, why should we of given our seniority?? It wasn't like we were welcomed with open arms here.. They company welcomed AT, but it's employees didn't even before talks of seniority.. The mechanics situation proves that point more than any other. The LOA that was agreed upon prior to any seniority or integration talks alone says that the MX group wanted to fight until the bitter end.
You say we should've been more appreciative of joining SWA just because of the money and benefits?? Maybe if you, Buscador, and all the others like you would've welcomed us in instead of just running to the point of what's fair and not fair, then maybe you would've gotten what you wanted. I assure you, calling a group of people worthless and inferior in so many occasions will cause that group to become angry and defensive, and the first thing a person does when they defensive is try and salvage what they have. You say we were arrogant, I say we were afraid of the unknown and did the best we could to cope while people like you tired to break us down and piss us off.
You want to know what would've made this integration flow more smoothly from the beginning?? Instead of attacking us at Airtran with your union dogs and insulting us with YOUR arrogant posts about SWA, maybe you should've tried a different approach like helping us in transition instead of battling us. AT employees were ALL left in limbo while SWA employes knew that their future was secure no matter what happened with AT. Maybe, if people like you, would've helped AT through the darkness of the unknown instead of kicking and punching us, then maybe we would've been on the same page. SWA the company tried their damnedest to make this as smooth as possible with failed programs such as the wingmate and the one LUV parties, and we at Airtran really thought it was a sincere gesture until the real SWA employees came out and began to scream. Our obvious reaction was to fight back regardless of logic. YOU had an opportunity to make this work but cared to little and are to arrogant for a peaceful resolution. Even now, after the AMFA committee got exactly what they wanted, the membership is still threatening to not include us in because they don't feel it to be enough and want even more, same as you buscador. In my perceptive, the ultimate blame for failure here is SWA employees that cry loud and scream hard with the arrogance to call themselves greater than an equal human being is the fall of this integration, while we at Airtran did the best we could to try and understand our situation and cope with the fear of change.
Again, I'm done trying to be reasonable with you. You have a one track mind and it's closed off tighter than a nun's vagina! Keep on insulting AT employees, like a child, just to get people to follow you in your way of hatful thinking.
Just to correct you here, the LOA only came about after them company gave the same thing to the pilots first.
Then we mechanics only asked for the same thing after MONTHS AND MONTHS of the IBT not answering our phone calls to even start to talk about having a meeting with them.
The LOA was only a tool to force the hand of the IBT and get them to the table in the first place.
Proff of this is our generous offer to do away with our protection LOA in exchange for the exact same deal that an arbitrator gave to the dispatchers.
Avtech says,
They wouldn't of cared about the money or anything else as long as they got to keep exactly what they already have, which is fair in my eyes
I tried to read your rant but here is where I stopped, you have got to be kidding me and yourself if you think that AT employees werent licking their chops and knew they were going to be getting OUR contracts.. AT problem was they were counting their money and EXPECTING FOR NOTHING TO CHANGE, I had talked to many AT FA's before all of this crap, when it was just a 4 year rumor of SWA Buying AT, the consensus was they would love to work for SWA because AT mgmt sucks, their trips arent as good and they would LUV to have our CONTRACT.. again you are so far off base.
O yea I noticed how quickly you went into Victim MODE,, to be expected. AT employees got a deal that everyone in the REAL world finds hard to believe, and KEPT the MAJORITY of your seniority,,SWA employees compared got crap/zip/nada thats the bottom line. Not a thing you or I can do about it, it is what is and will forever be that way. Give ME a 40-50% pay raise and I think I could handle a little CHANGE but no we get to hear complaining and demands. Why dont you go tell an America West employee how bad this deal is for you, tell them how horrible you got treated, they will laugh you out of the room. AT playing victim is the biggest sign of disrespect towards SWA employees and others like America West who got screwed big time!!
Dont read my posts if you get so upset,( not good for your delusional state), and I never said all 35000 are reading these boards but all 35000 have opinions dont they, and I report the general/majority/ concerns and opinions. If you dont like what is said too bad, stop reading and commenting then!! You are not smart enough to go round for round with me, you are too blinded by control, anger, and lack the understanding of human nature.
I stayed out of this for months yet I still hear the AT demands and complaints and the POOR AT victim attitudes and it is amazing, tried to be naive and think the waters would calm and this could possibly work out but story after story, attitude after attitude and I realize its not going to change. You AvTEch are a shining example, your passive agressive and go from screaming DOH to lets work it out, back to Screaming and lets be fair... so be it,, you and your 379 other mechs had your voices heard, screamed and demanded how much you DESERVE and then voted, reality is going to bite you because you tried to take too much..you gambled like a jack russel terrier against a rotweiler hoping the little bark would be enough to scare the rotweiler into submission.. How did that work out!!
They wouldn't of cared about the money or anything else as long as they got to keep exactly what they already have, which is fair in my eyes
I tried to read your rant but here is where I stopped, you have got to be kidding me and yourself if you think that AT employees werent licking their chops and knew they were going to be getting OUR contracts.. AT problem was they were counting their money and EXPECTING FOR NOTHING TO CHANGE, I had talked to many AT FA's before all of this crap, when it was just a 4 year rumor of SWA Buying AT, the consensus was they would love to work for SWA because AT mgmt sucks, their trips arent as good and they would LUV to have our CONTRACT.. again you are so far off base.
O yea I noticed how quickly you went into Victim MODE,, to be expected. AT employees got a deal that everyone in the REAL world finds hard to believe, and KEPT the MAJORITY of your seniority,,SWA employees compared got crap/zip/nada thats the bottom line. Not a thing you or I can do about it, it is what is and will forever be that way. Give ME a 40-50% pay raise and I think I could handle a little CHANGE but no we get to hear complaining and demands. Why dont you go tell an America West employee how bad this deal is for you, tell them how horrible you got treated, they will laugh you out of the room. AT playing victim is the biggest sign of disrespect towards SWA employees and others like America West who got screwed big time!!
Dont read my posts if you get so upset,( not good for your delusional state), and I never said all 35000 are reading these boards but all 35000 have opinions dont they, and I report the general/majority/ concerns and opinions. If you dont like what is said too bad, stop reading and commenting then!! You are not smart enough to go round for round with me, you are too blinded by control, anger, and lack the understanding of human nature.
I stayed out of this for months yet I still hear the AT demands and complaints and the POOR AT victim attitudes and it is amazing, tried to be naive and think the waters would calm and this could possibly work out but story after story, attitude after attitude and I realize its not going to change. You AvTEch are a shining example, your passive agressive and go from screaming DOH to lets work it out, back to Screaming and lets be fair... so be it,, you and your 379 other mechs had your voices heard, screamed and demanded how much you DESERVE and then voted, reality is going to bite you because you tried to take too much..you gambled like a jack russel terrier against a rotweiler hoping the little bark would be enough to scare the rotweiler into submission.. How did that work out!!
AvTech04
Senior
It's abundantly clear that you really are a psycho..I feel sorry of the passenger that relies on you in case of an emergency. So i'm ending this conversation, all I ask is that you stop mentioning or replying to any of my post as my interest on this forum does not and never has involved you.
Hope you one day see that Reality is a hard thing for you to swallow... I wont or wouldnt stoop as low to question your work abilities even though you are and live in a DELUSION,, if you were on my plane two things wouldnt happen,, problems from any passengers period.,,and in an evacuation you would want me there , trust me. Just more proof that Reality is a road touched very few times by the Avtech Tires...
Havent I asked you not to respond my posts many times, I can only hope that those at AT dont feel the lack of gratitude and come in with the same attitude,,
Jim, seriously?? you just make a beautiful pie crust with the cookie crumbs, and everone gets a piece!! DUH....
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