Those Silly Pilots

[TheLarkAscending]

What a classless POS you are. :down:

Surely you'd already been aware of that. :wacko: never ceases to lower the bar, though, does he?

Yep, those silly pilots ...

 

[Tim Nelson]

If this board is any indication then I think USA320pilot is accurate in that a tranistion agreement and implementation of the Nic award with a joint seniority list just isn't going to happen. I doubt a 12-15 year fence will keep this company around and although a 7 year fence is likely the only solution outside of reason, I doubt your company can sustain itself with such great divisions. Such a fence will also 'severely weaken' any section 6's.
Further, it would appear to weaken the hand of other non-pilot unions on the property.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Remember this is who you are dealing with:

From the July 26, 2002 Charlotte Observer:

UNIONS CAN SINK US AIRWAYS WITHOUT AGREEMENTS FROM ALL ITS UNIONS, AIRLINE'S FUTURE IS BLEAK

In recent days US Airways has made much progress toward ensuring that it will have a future. It has reached tentative contract restructuring agreements with its pilots, flight attendants and the Transport Workers
Union, which represents the dispatchers, simulator engineers and flight crew training instructors, and with subsidiary PSA Airlines' pilots and flight attendants.

The International Association of Machinists (IAM) unit representing mechanics is close to a deal, and the IAM Fleet Service negotiators are making good progress.

But that's not enough.

The Communication Workers of America (CWA), which represents customer service and reservation agents, remains far from agreement with the company.
US Airways is on the brink of court-ordered bankruptcy because its situation is "unsustainable." Failure to improve the situation will have devastating effects on employees, customers and companies that depend on US Airways.

The airline has received a "conditional" federal loan guarantee approval, but can't use those funds unless it gets restructuring agreements with all labor groups, in accordance with the business plan submitted to the Air
Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB).

Needed for loan guarantees

Major obstacles remain in the way of a voluntary restructuring.

US Airways may not be able to reach agreements with lenders without tentative agreements with the remaining unions. Unless it has those agreements the company wouldn't get final ATSB loan guarantee approval,
government sources believe.

How bad is the situation? The carrier continues to burn cash during what is historically the best-performing time of year. Ten months after Sept. 11, US Airways has not resolved its cost problems, the economy remains sluggish,
revenue is off 20 percent and low-cost competitors are aggressively attacking its market share. The industry has not recovered as expected. Domestic fares are at 15-year lows. Shifts in buying patterns and travel options indicate airlines may never get the revenue per available seat mile they previously enjoyed.

Disturbing reports

US Airways needs restructuring agreements for either a voluntary restructuring or successful bankruptcy reorganization. If the company gets union concessions and qualifies for government financing, then if it's
forced into bankruptcy, it probably could get in and out of bankruptcy quickly.

What's disturbing are reports that the CWA leadership is misleading its members. Last Friday, company negotiators asked the union to meet, to try and resolve their differences. The union said its negotiators couldn't meet,
but its advisers would be available. However, I'm told that when management tried to schedule a meeting, they were told the advisers had other commitments. Meanwhile, the CWA issued a report telling its members the
company met with the advisers last weekend - which management disputes.

Brinkmanship by any union could push the airline into bankruptcy. It's disappointing to see a relatively small group of employees risk the destruction of a viable company, with a devastating effect on 40,000 employees and their families.

No one can be sure what will happen in bankruptcy, but it's certain that if the company reorganizes and successfully comes out of bankruptcy, the labor groups that don't have tentative agreements with the company prior to bankruptcy will lose.

As in other union negotiations, the parties that reach savings targeted in the business plan will get a bankruptcy protection letter, which protects against even deeper salary and benefit cuts if the company enters
bankruptcy.

Some may face pay cuts

If the company files for bankruptcy, workers in labor groups without that bankruptcy protection letter may face deep cuts in pay and benefits, loss of unused sick and vacation time, slashed retirement benefits and a crash in
the value of common stock in 401(k) accounts. In addition, they'll work for a smaller airline that will hand out layoff notices at once with no severance pay, and will pay members of unprotected unions significantly less.

Each day the company moves nearer bankruptcy. New chief executive officer David Siegel has brought a breath of fresh air to management. US Airways' best chance to survive is for unions and creditors to bet on him and his
team. Employees wanting to keep their jobs must impress upon union rank-and-file employees the importance of ordering union leaders back to the bargaining table at once, to reach an agreement that is 85 percent of the
targeted concessions.

The choice is simple: Either all stakeholders move past their anger, frustration and denial to obtain and ratify restructuring agreements, or the carrier will almost certainly enter bankruptcy.

History has shown only two major airlines have successfully restructured in bankruptcy - not good odds for this company to continue operation.

A320usapilot(name changed due to board rules) is a US Airways captain

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE

July 26, 2002

This is Roy Freundlich with US Airways an MEC update for Friday, July 26, with two new items:
Item 1. Today the Charlotte Observer published an anti-union editorial from one of our pilots, titled "Unions can Sink US Airways," that aggressively promotes management’s objectives on achieving concessions from other labor groups. The editorial goes so far as to suggest that the CWA union leadership, who represent customer service employees, is misleading their members on their negotiating activity, and implies that management’s side of a dispute is more accurate.

This editorial does not in any way represent ALPA’s position, understanding, or sentiment, on other unions and their sincere efforts to represent their members. ALPA has received no reports, nor would it assign any value to reports, that suggest that any union is misleading their membership. The pilot author of the editorial holds no union position in ALPA. The anti-union public statements from one of our pilot-ALPA members is regrettable.

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

 

[exB717Flyer]

If this board is any indication ...

The good news is this board (and any other) is NOT a true reflection of reality. Too many people who post to message boards harbor radical ideas, just need to vent, or get perverse satisfaction out of angering others. Moderate opinions tend to be missed or ignored because they're not entertaining. Plus there's the fact that most people will say things online that they'd never say to another's face. There's a lot of good that can come from boards like this (which is why I'm here) but don't mistake a few malcontents as representative of the majority.

I've always had a high opinion of USAir pilots (I used to fly at Express) and despite the rhetoric I actually don't anticipate them burning down the airline.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Remember this is who you are dealing with:

I tried searching the Charlotte Observer and their website isn't all that user friendly. But correct me if I'm wrong - you posted an actual letter to the editor signed by the actual name of a certain a320 captain, correct? There was no middle man involved, right? Those words were the words of him/her alone, correct?

 

[700UW]

Yes that is correct, that certain pilot who's real name was used at the end of the article, so I changed it to his US Aviation Name. Otherwise that is ALL HIM!

That is all his rambling, incorrect and rhetoric filled op-ed piece he wrote and the Observer published.

The MEC CODE A PHONE UPDATE was ALPA's rebuttal to the article and disavowed anything to do with the article and the pilot who wrote it.

Told you that is what his MO is.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Yes that is correct, that certain pilot who's real name was used at the end of the article, so I changed it to his US Aviation Name. Otherwise that is ALL HIM!

That is all his rambling, incorrect and rhetoric filled op-ed piece he wrote and the Observer published.

The MEC CODE A PHONE UPDATE was ALPA's rebuttal to the article and disavowed anything to do with the article and the pilot who wrote it.

Told you that is what his MO is.

And despite all that, this certain pilot actually thinks others will believe his/her claims that he/she has an "in" with members of the EC. Anybody who is anybody doesn't talk to people like that. To the contrary, they get restraining orders against people like that.

 

[700UW]

He will come on here and say "ALPA only did that release cause the IAM was infuriated with the article."

I do know the IAM was not happy with the piece, and I would think CWA was also.

The IAM Mechanic and Related group during chapter 11-1 did not reach an agreement, the day the company filed the petition they handed a full final version offer to the NC and said take it, we are filing bankruptcy due to the lessors not being willing to lower lease rates and to prevent the creditors from filing their own petition.

The ramp was not close either and the same happened to them.

I can't speak about the CWA as I was not involved, so as you can tell he is a management wannabe and he is their greatest cheerleader and still to this day cant realize they are using him to divide and concur, that is why he was ran three times at LGA Base for LEC rep and has lost three times, he does not even fly out of the PIT Base where he lives.

After the MEC and Dave Siegel in 11-1 case took their pension he came spewing on the board that he hates Siegel and ALPA and him will burn the place down, it lasted about a week and he became Dave's #1 fan and told the board Dave informed him while riding jump seat of all US' secret financial plans and doing,(eventhough) we know that violates every SEC Rule and Regulation) (I know when I was in negotiations I had to sign a confidentiality agreement on certaing looking forward issues that I could not tell to anyone, including the membership).

So always call his so called "facts" out, as it is mostly posted in fear he might lose something, so he threatens you with rhetoric and implies someone "in the know" told me this. When everyone else knows they are using him and he can't realize it.

I could go on for volumes about his threats, rhetoric, intimidation and his other tactics to try and get the posters to believe what he states his facts and he knows it all.

That says it all to me.

 

[delldude]

Soon expect to see USA320pilot's alter ego....ralph kramden pop up....

 

[Tim Nelson]

He will come on here and say "ALPA only did that release cause the IAM was infuriated with the article."

I do know the IAM was not happy with the piece, and I would think CWA was also.

The IAM Mechanic and Related group during chapter 11-1 did not reach an agreement, the day the company filed the petition they handed a full final version offer to the NC and said take it, we are filing bankruptcy due to the lessors not being willing to lower lease rates and to prevent the creditors from filing their own petition.

The ramp was not close either and the same happened to them.

I can't speak about the CWA as I was not involved, so as you can tell he is a management wannabe and he is their greatest cheerleader and still to this day cant realize they are using him to divide and concur, that is why he was ran three times at LGA Base for LEC rep and has lost three times, he does not even fly out of the PIT Base where he lives.

After the MEC and Dave Siegel in 11-1 case took their pension he came spewing on the board that he hates Siegel and ALPA and him will burn the place down, it lasted about a week and he became Dave's #1 fan and told the board Dave informed him while riding jump seat of all US' secret financial plans and doing,(eventhough) we know that violates every SEC Rule and Regulation) (I know when I was in negotiations I had to sign a confidentiality agreement on certaing looking forward issues that I could not tell to anyone, including the membership).

So always call his so called "facts" out, as it is mostly posted in fear he might lose something, so he threatens you with rhetoric and implies someone "in the know" told me this. When everyone else knows they are using him and he can't realize it.

I could go on for volumes about his threats, rhetoric, intimidation and his other tactics to try and get the posters to believe what he states his facts and he knows it all.

That says it all to me.

700, why do you almost onstantly reduce your post down to personal attacks? There is a way to stay objective if you disagree with USA320pilot.
Regarding USA320pilot, I found his letter to the charlotte observer mostly true and non disputable. The Unions could have sunk US AIRWAYS is a true statement. What wasn't posted was how the I'll Ask Management union 'sunk' its own members seniority and retirement plans.

ALPA's knee jerk reaction was typical of unions. Unions want to muzzle members and force members to give up individual rights to speech. I give USA320 points for not being fearful of left wing unions.

Did I agree with everything USA320 said? No. NO WAY DO YOU THROW 40,000 jobs on a blind bet that "Dave" da man. That's not how justice works. IMO, USA320 needed his job and his letter was his way of advocating for such.
Also, I disagreed with his statements about the invincibility of 1113 letters. I believe you and other IAM loyalist advocated the 1113's like USA320 though, when in fact the 1113's weren't worth the paper they were drafted on. Oops, i forgot, the 1113's weren't part of the curriculum at the I'll Ask Management community college.

At any rate, USA320 is 'spot on' again regarding the Nic award. I think you would agree if you ever could look at the process of exactly how the award could ever be implemented. Again, nobody is telling you that binding arbitration isn't binding...'in context'. Right now, it has no teeth and although USA320pilot has carefully unpacked this issue for you, either you haven't grasped it or you don't want to give USA320 the points he deserves for informing the board of the 'fullness' of the award.

regards,

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I have'nt been on here long enough to be sure, but it looks like Tim Nelson and USA320 are the same fellow.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I have'nt been on here long enough to be sure, but it looks like Tim Nelson and USA320 are the same fellow.

Ditto. Heaven forbid if there is ever psychological screening for pilots as part of their FAA medical exam.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I have'nt been on here long enough to be sure, but it looks like Tim Nelson and USA320 are the same fellow.

That was a good one. The first thing that came to my mind when I read what you said was "Gee I wish I had his money".

I respect USA320pilot and although I have disagreed with him over other items, he is 'spot on' with this Nic Award.
While his discussions always have a 'legit and plausible' opinion, even if provoking, I haven't seen him reduce his discussions down to the childish blurbs of 700.

OTOH, it is difficult to have an intelligent discussion with 700uw since if you don't agree with him he flips out, gets personal, and starts babbling silliness. All that without facts. I often wondered what 700 meant when he sez "Don't let the facts get in your way". Based on his discussions I have concluded that he's just making a statement that he himself follows.

regards,

 

[ussnark]

Regarding USA320pilot, I found his letter to the charlotte observer mostly true and non disputable. The Unions could have sunk US AIRWAYS is a true statement.

What did you consider "true" and "non disputable"?

Since, we have found out that the company lied about their financial condition, that they simply used a crisis to achieve something they could not do through lawful means, that of concessions. They actually celebrated when the first tower fell.

After the first go-around, they found out they could have gotten more, so, publicly, they announced that another go was on the agenda in order to "gain more concessions from unions under chapter 11".

I find it difficult to see your attempted correlation of union killing company when the company makes those kind of statements.

You seem incredibly unhinged from reality, sir.

 

[exB717Flyer]

They actually celebrated when the first tower fell.

You seem incredibly unhinged from reality, sir.

Does anybody else see the irony in his quotes?