This is why pax are not flying!

[RDU Jetblast]

I guess you're right Blue. I'm holding my ticket right now.
The fare of one ticket is $197.68
Transportation Tax is $14.82

and

other taxes are $14.00

The taxes represent 12.8% of the fare. Not bad really.

I guess the low load factors are killing you guys and you're grabbing every penny you can wherever you can. It seems you'd have better luck with having across the board fare sales and a heavy advertising campaign to bring passengers back. You know advertising always pays for itself. Maybe plastering the airwaves some cool commercials will psyche the public into filling the seats again.

What the public sees right now are CEO's singing the blues to congress and promising to slash jobs for Wall Street. It's hard for passengers to get motivated to fly when they know employees are suffering low morale. It's negative press. Bad for business. Simply bad business.

I strongly beleive that an airline can change it's circumstances by changing customers' perception.

 

[sfb]

I have to agree with KCFlyer -- the drop in passengers isn't solely due to inconvenience, but also due to high business fares. Little Rock is a smaller market (smaller metro area) than Memphis. But for some reason, in spite of there being fewer competitors (UA doesn't even fly to LIT) and fewer non-stop flights, the LIT-CHI and MEM-CHI traffic numbers were virtually identical for 3Q01. That reason is the fares, plain and simple -- NW's average MEM-ORD fare was nearly twice WN's LIT-MDW, in spite of a 50 mile shorter stage length.

If you think business travelers don't use Southwest, you haven't been to HOU, DAL, BUR, etc. Do you really think that Southwest runs 22 daily (each way) LAX-OAK flights to cater to leisure travelers? That prime DTW-MSP route you mentioned, BlueSkies? Actually only 13 daily departures at 9 distinct times (the others are wingtip departures) separated by roughly two hours on average. Only 14 daily on MSP-ORD/MDW. 9 daily round-trips in the prime business market of DTW-LGA, compared to 11 daily round-trips in the leisure market of PVD-BWI on WN.

People who think that WN (and similarly, the other discounters) only flies people around on cheap, discounted tickets ignore an important fact at their own peril -- WN sells a far, far higher percentage of its highest walk-up fares than its network competitors do. Roughly 40% of their passengers were traveling on refundable tickets during the second quarter of 2001. Moreover, they offer a comparable or better in-flight coach product on two-to-three hour flights than most of the full-service majors do.

The network carriers have only themselves to thank for increasing their own taxes. The segment fee was imposed at the urging of the network carriers to be punitive to low-fare carriers like Southwest. It's come back around to bite them, since $12 in segment fees ($3/segment) on a $200 round-trip would have been $5 in tax (2.5%, the excise was reduced from 10% to 7.5%) in the old taxation scheme.

 

[JS]

Originally posted by RDU Jetblast: I think it all boils down to, as usual, money. Some routes are affordable but others are insanely expensive. This weekend, we'll be flying RDu-LGA-RDU. The last three trips in the past year averaged $240.00. This one is gonna cost $450.00 RT! That's with six weeks advanced purchase. It's almost like the airline is subsidizing its entire operation with this city pair.

Wow, $450 roundtrip. Is this over Thanksgiving? Holidays are always more expensive.

Even on the two busiest days (Nov. 27 and Dec. 1), I found plenty of flights around $370 or $375 roundtrip including tax.

 

[KCFlyer]

[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/23/2002 7:18:50 PM UA777DEN wrote:[BR][BR][BR][STRONG]KCFlyer[/STRONG],[BR][BR]You don't go through the Rockies to get to Phoenix, unless you want to do it the long way.[BR][BR]The quick way is going down south to New Mexico, then go west to Arizona. I've done it before. Can easily be done in 2 days with a stop in Albuquerque.[BR][BR]Regards----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Sorry...the geography goes once I hit the front range. But my point was that Mr. Boyd must REALLY be either cheap or have mucho problems clearing security because he could fly from Phoenix to Denver over Christmas week for $330 round trip(source UAL.com). When he's pulling up to the Holiday Inn Express in Albuquerque, the person who opted to fly would be enjoying after dinner drinks with their loved ones. Dang...I'm hard on the airlines, but $330 isn't a fare that would constitute open season on travellers. However,the restrictions on that ticket are another story. But bottom line, anybody who would spend two days each way driving (and Colorado can have some tricky weather in December) must really have some issues with the airlines. And again, I say - by the time my flights on final to DEN, Mr. Boyd will still be over 800 miles away. Seems to me like flying's worth the hassles.

 

[UA777DEN]

[P][STRONG]KCFlyer[/STRONG],[/P]
[P]You don't go through the Rockies to get to Phoenix, unless you want to do it the long way.[/P]
[P]The quick way is going down south to New Mexico, then go west to Arizona. I've done it before. Can easily be done in 2 days with a stop in Albuquerque.[/P]
[P]Regards[/P]

 

[ITRADE]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/25/2002 10:06:55 AM mrman wrote:
[P]BlueSkys=[BR]I suggest you go over to MDW or DAL or HOU or LAX or ONT or BWI or San Jose on a  Monday morning if you don't think business flyers are flying on WN. Check out the standby gate at Hobby on Friday, one suite after another going standby to get home early to meet their family.  Check out the suits on HOU-California flights.  Also I suggest you check out the new MDW.  More convenient than ORD, quicker downtown via cab or EL and no hour waits on tarmac waiting to take off or getting an available gate.  Not to metion of course the outstanding local restaurants.  MDW is now #2 on my list of great airports after austin.  I fly over 150,000 mile a year and WN get close to half my business.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Guess you've never been to DCA....And no, Southwest doesn't fly there....[/P]

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/25/2002 10:08:10 AM ITRADE wrote:
[P][BR]Guess you've never been to DCA....And no, Southwest doesn't fly there....
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]And the point is????[/P]

 

[mrman]

BlueSkys=
I suggest you go over to MDW or DAL or HOU or LAX or ONT or BWI or San Jose on a Monday morning if you don't think business flyers are flying on WN. Check out the standby gate at Hobby on Friday, one suite after another going standby to get home early to meet their family. Check out the suits on HOU-California flights. Also I suggest you check out the new MDW. More convenient than ORD, quicker downtown via cab or EL and no hour waits on tarmac waiting to take off or getting an available gate. Not to metion of course the outstanding local restaurants. MDW is now #2 on my list of great airports after austin. I fly over 150,000 mile a year and WN get close to half my business.

 

[DLFlyer31]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/25/2002 10:06:55 AM mrman wrote:
Also I suggest you check out the new MDW. More convenient than ORD, quicker downtown via cab or EL and no hour waits on tarmac waiting to take off or getting an available gate. Not to metion of course the outstanding local restaurants. MDW is now #2 on my list of great airports after austin. I fly over 150,000 mile a year and WN get close to half my business.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Indeed the new MDW is a vast improvement. However, in terms of delays, the traditional wisdom is starting to lose its hold. Delays at ORD have dropped off dramatically because of the draw down by UA and AA. While over at MDW the additional flights are increasing congestion. MDW may become another LGA before too long.

 

[mrman]

Looking over the original topic, I feel that security lines are not keeping people away. I rarely wait more than 5 minutes to get through. Maybe thats because DFW/DAL are my home airports. What bothers me the most are overworked gate agents and the new new nickle and dime you with fees attitude of the airlines. Also the empasis on improving the bottom line by looking at costs rather than generating revenue and customer loyalty. I feel these fees may drive the revenue side of the equation at at a greater rate than costs. In other words customers in large part will be disgusted or go to other airlines rather than pay $100 to go standby. Also the first time AA charges my client for a use it or loose it ticket, my client WILL require me to fly someone other than AA even if it means a connections in MSP (keep up the good work NW)or a Texas Two-Step in Houston.

 

[mrman]

----------------
On 10/25/2002 10:08:10 AM ITRADE wrote:


Guess you've never been to DCA....And no, Southwest doesn't fly there....

ITRADE, actually I flew DCA-DFW yesterday on AA..but I don't understand your point. Can you clarify.

 

[DTWRedTail]

CNN just reported that Passenger and Freight rail companies may be targeted for the next terrorist attacks.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/26/2002 557 PM DTWRedTail wrote:

CNN just reported that Passenger and Freight rail companies may be targeted for the next terrorist attacks.
----------------
[/blockquote]


IMHO, the constant threat of terrorism is one of the major reasons people are not flying. The not-so-hot economy is the other.

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/27/2002 7:30:44 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]IMHO, the constant threat of terrorism is one of the major reasons people are not flying.  The not-so-hot economy is the other.[BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Those are the same folks who gave up eating apples after the Alar scare a few years back. Those are the same people who believe the chain e-mails that went around last year about a friend of a friend who's Arabic boyfriend told her to stay away from the mall last Halloween. Those are the people who sometimes make me feel ashamed to be an American. [/P]

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Got back from my RDU-LGA-RDU trip. 50% full going up in an F-100 and better than 80% full coming back in a Mad Dog. Good loads.

LGA was a ghost town. Land, taxi right to the gate. Push back, taxi right to the runway for takeoff.

I've been flyng to LGA for twenty years and have worked there for eight; I could really see the effects of reduced fleets across the board.

Absolutely no hassle at security checkpoints. Or unmanageable crowds at the ticket counters. Bags on carousal when I got there. It will be interesting to see how it goes during Thanksgiving.