They're Back

[jimntx]

So, if AA is suddenly - say, when concessions are needed - "willing" to pay less for a particular job function, I guess it then stands to reason, per your argument, that the value of said job function is indeed worth the new, lower figure? I mean, your formula must work both ways?
Somehow, I doubt many will agree it does, though.

That, in essence, is exactly what happened. The company said we are only going to pay 15.6% less per f/a per hr than we currently pay, and if you do not accept this pay rate, we are going to file for bankruptcy. (Whether they actually would is not the issue.) So, right before I was furloughed, I received a cut in pay to $22.10/hr.

The company could easily make a case for an even lower wage by advertising for new hire flight attendants at $15/hr, and I would be willing to bet that they would have to hold the open house at the Dallas World Trade Center main hall to accommodate the crowds of applicants. Now, don't get your knickers in a twist. I'm well aware that such an action would be illegal under the contract, and because they can not hire from the outside as long as there are furloughees, it would be a violation of Federal labor laws to advertise a non-existent job opening. I'm just making a point that there are a lot of people out there willing to do my job for less than what I was being paid.

For that matter the company could advertise the job at $10/hr and when it didn't get any response, it could apply under Shrub's guest worker program to bring in foreigners to do the job because "Americans are not willing to work this job for the salary we are able to pay."

The truth is, there is in fact a "real" value to any job. If a person is producing less/goods services than what they're being paid, and this is widespread across a company, the company will in fact lose money. In some jobs it's easy to calculate it, with others it's not..

To be more precise, it's easy to calculate in manufacturing jobs where you have a product that costs x dollars to produce (minus the cost of labor) and which you can sell for x dollars more. Somewhere in that range between cost of production and selling price you have to fit profit margin and cost of labor.

In service jobs--which constitute the great majority of our economy today--it's almost impossible to calculate. Is a unionized hotel maid in NYC making $15/hr intrinsically more productive than a non-unionized hotel maid in Dallas making minimum wage. No. It's just that the employer in NYC must be willing to pay the higher wage in order to get someone do the job.

It's really a classic supply and demand problem from economics 101. In today's economy the supply of workers exceeds the demand for workers to a sufficient degree to push down the price employers are willing to pay. That's why a CBA is of such importance to the unionized work groups right now. It prevents the company from simply hiring new workers at a lower wage and getting rid of the higher paid workers.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

You mean aside from the fact that she called in sick with the Thanksgiving flue and the X-mass flu and the New Years flu? I have been dealing with customers and FA*s long enough to have a pretty good idea when someone is trying to feed me a line of crap. She stated that she was off the next day. We had a discussion for a few min on how this month always takes priority of the subsequent month and that if you are sitting reserve, you can be flown into the next month over hard days off, over another sequence ... etc. After explaining all this she came to the realization that she was indeed legal to take the trip I was assigning her and decided that since there are no repercussions for her actions that she was going to bomb in sick.

Any other questions?

"ANY OTHER QUESTIONS" ?????????/


Yes garfield, just one.

How do YOU "K N O W" that she was'nt sick ???????

NH/BB's/Retired !!

 

[Kev3188]

"Years ago, mechanic was "lamenting" over the loss of his "paid-day-off-birthday"
with the new contract......
My answer, "Why the hell should the company be grateful the day YOU were born?"
He had to laugh, too. "


Woztwa--

Good story. IIRC, at NW, the paid birthday was a trade for a different holiday (Good Friday? Easter?).

 

[DFWCC]

What no one seemed to pick up on is, if AA thinks the value of your $22 or $33 or whatever an hour job is now worth $18 that is the new value of your job. Not necessarily the way it works. What if I still beleive my value to be $XX per hour and they drop me to $18/hr. I may think ok I'll do what I think an $18 employee would work like. With morale down maybe that means I don't try as hard. 1 less smile, 1 bag left on the ramp, 1 less "not going the extra mile" maybe that means 1 extra customer lost. I hear a lot of "hey they cut my pay 16% therefore I work 16%less" "I just don't care anymore".
There is a morAAle problem at AA. The way the ave Joe sees it. If AA and WN are paid the same (and I beleive WN is paid more) for the same job. It must be mgnt and their decisions that make the differnce.

 

[Kev3188]

DFWCC--

WN ramp makes more than both of us......

 

[jimntx]

What no one seemed to pick up on is, if AA thinks the value of your $22 or $33 or whatever an hour job is now worth $18 that is the new value of your job. Not necessarily the way it works. What if I still beleive my value to be $XX per hour and they drop me to $18/hr. I may think ok I'll do what I think an $18 employee would work like. With morale down maybe that means I don't try as hard. 1 less smile, 1 bag left on the ramp, 1 less "not going the extra mile" maybe that means 1 extra customer lost. I hear a lot of "hey they cut my pay 16% therefore I work 16%less" "I just don't care anymore".
There is a morAAle problem at AA. The way the ave Joe sees it. If AA and WN are paid the same (and I beleive WN is paid more) for the same job. It must be mgnt and their decisions that make the differnce.

I'm not disputing the fact that there is a morale problem. However, I do not agree with the approach of sabotaging the job and the company in response to a pay cut.

Since indentured servitude and slavery were both outlawed, the conventional wisdom is that if I don't think the pay is commensurate with the work involved, I am free to get another job. Now, I know that is easier said than done--particularly in this economy--but if I stay after the paycut, then I should do the job to the best of my ability (if just for my own self-esteem).

I mean, is it going to make me feel good to know that I have chosen to ruin someone's vacation/honeymoon/business trip by deliberately leaving the passenger's bag on the ramp because I am mad at the company? Do I get satisfaction by spilling someone's dinner tray in their lap on a 12-hour flight with no other food available? What exactly do I accomplish by telling a passenger the wrong gate number for their connecting flight? Such acts are not just between the company and me. An innocent third party is the person most injured. And if that person chooses not to fly AA in the future because of my actions, what does that do for the long-term viability of my job?

 

[DFWCC]

JIMNTEX,
While I agree with you 100% and I do do my job as best I can about 95% of the time (being honest here) that which I qouted earlier about attitude and morale is heard most often. You are also right. If the pay went to $17/hr and I choose to stay on then I do my job as is assigned. A lot of people just won't go the extra mile. Personally I will because I'm old school and that is the work ethic I have.
Like I have told others out there. You do have a choice. If you don"t like AA, your job, or your pay (pick 1 here) take tomarrow off. Spend the whole day writing the prettiest resume' and go shop yourself. See how many jobs there are out there that will pay $20/hr. They just aren't any, bud. Even if you have a degree. I know many BAs that are working the ramp.

 

[jimntx]

Like I have told others out there. You do have a choice. If you don"t like AA, your job, or your pay (pick 1 here) take tomarrow off. Spend the whole day writing the prettiest resume' and go shop yourself. See how many jobs there are out there that will pay $20/hr. They just aren't any, bud. Even if you have a degree. I know many BAs that are working the ramp.

Amen, brother. I have a friend that I worked with at Texaco who was forced out of her job at ChevronTexaco (when pronouncing it, the Texaco is silent) 01FEB03. She was a 6-figure manager, top notch producer. She has not found a permanent job yet--she has 3 3-ring binders full of all the apps she has made to different companies in different cities over the past 14 months. An Information Technology headhunter called her last week with an offer of a temporary, contract programming job at $17/hr.

At the time I went to work for AA in Sept., 2000, contract programmers in Houston were making a minimum of $45/hr!!!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I mean, is it going to make me feel good to know that I have chosen to ruin someone's vacation/honeymoon/business trip by deliberately leaving the passenger's bag on the ramp because I am mad at the company? Do I get satisfaction by spilling someone's dinner tray in their lap on a 12-hour flight with no other food available? What exactly do I accomplish by telling a passenger the wrong gate number for their connecting flight? Such acts are not just between the company and me. An innocent third party is the person most injured. And if that person chooses not to fly AA in the future because of my actions, what does that do for the long-term viability of my job?

It kinda sorta maybe sounds like you are thinking that some of that behavior is intentional. I hope it is not, but we cannot ignore the fact that poor morale often results in poor performance. I know a number of employees who just get through the day. There is no joy, no enthusiasm, no satisfaction, not even the same pay. All that is gone, with no hope for the future. Even former highly motivated top performers are affected.

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

Amen, brother. I have a friend that I worked with at Texaco who was forced out of her job at ChevronTexaco (when pronouncing it, the Texaco is silent) 01FEB03. She was a 6-figure manager, top notch producer. She has not found a permanent job yet--she has 3 3-ring binders full of all the apps she has made to different companies in different cities over the past 14 months. An Information Technology headhunter called her last week with an offer of a temporary, contract programming job at $17/hr.

At the time I went to work for AA in Sept., 2000, contract programmers in Houston were making a minimum of $45/hr!!!

You are so correct in what you write. There are a lot of people who found them self in situations where they used to make buko bucks and now are happy to make minimum wage because there is no other job available.

And to all of the ones that think they are the only ones that work in a 24/7 environment I have to say: Wake Up!!!!!!

Look at the hospitality, emergency, convention, and other transportation that aviation, security etc etc etc industries. They don’t get B-Day off or additional pay. If in good times an employer gives ok, but it is not a good given right of the employee.

And look at the pay in the hospitality industry, they don’t get $22 an hour have less benefits and still can make it and are happy.

And just because you have so many sick days, doesn’t mean that you have to take them. Sick days are for when you are sick and not for when you feel that you don’t want to work.

Maybe some of you think that unions are the all-curing medicine. Has any one looked at the side effects unions have? The side effects might be worse than the symptoms they are fighting!
:unsure:

 

[jimntx]

It kinda sorta maybe sounds like you are thinking that some of that behavior is intentional. I hope it is not, but we cannot ignore the fact that poor morale often results in poor performance.

Well, those things I listed I was just using as examples--DFWCC suggested that some rampers were deliberately not boarding some luggage.

Let me give you a real life situation:

The company service standard for a S80 flight over 2 hours in length is that there will be two beverage services in coach. A friend of mine who is also a furloughed flight attendant was non-revving on a flight from DFW to SEA last month (I think we can all agree that flight is more than 2 hours). Not only did the flight attendants only do one service, they sat on the back jumpseat and complained loudly about their poor lot in life and what a rotten company AA is. My friend walked back and asked them to tone it down because revenue passengers could hear them. She also asked for another Pepsi. She was told, "You're a flight attendant, get it yourself. I'm not paid enough now to do a second service." Sounds intentional to me.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

What no one seemed to pick up on is, if AA thinks the value of your $22 or $33 or whatever an hour job is now worth $18 that is the new value of your job. Not necessarily the way it works. What if I still beleive my value to be $XX per hour and they drop me to $18/hr. I may think ok I'll do what I think an $18 employee would work like. With morale down maybe that means I don't try as hard. 1 less smile, 1 bag left on the ramp, 1 less "not going the extra mile" maybe that means 1 extra customer lost. I hear a lot of "hey they cut my pay 16% therefore I work 16%less" "I just don't care anymore".
There is a morAAle problem at AA. The way the ave Joe sees it. If AA and WN are paid the same (and I beleive WN is paid more) for the same job. It must be mgnt and their decisions that make the differnce.

I'm not disputing the fact that there is a morale problem. However, I do not agree with the approach of sabotaging the job and the company in response to a pay cut.

Since indentured servitude and slavery were both outlawed, the conventional wisdom is that if I don't think the pay is commensurate with the work involved, I am free to get another job. Now, I know that is easier said than done--particularly in this economy--but if I stay after the paycut, then I should do the job to the best of my ability (if just for my own self-esteem).

I mean, is it going to make me feel good to know that I have chosen to ruin someone's vacation/honeymoon/business trip by deliberately leaving the passenger's bag on the ramp because I am mad at the company? Do I get satisfaction by spilling someone's dinner tray in their lap on a 12-hour flight with no other food available? What exactly do I accomplish by telling a passenger the wrong gate number for their connecting flight? Such acts are not just between the company and me. An innocent third party is the person most injured. And if that person chooses not to fly AA in the future because of my actions, what does that do for the long-term viability of my job?

JIM,

No one wants to ruin anyones vacation/honeymoon etc.

Please allow me to "suggest" a hypothetical scenario to you.

Instead of "missed" bags, what about delays that reverberate throughout the system. Missed connections at the hubs(bags and pax), because the ramp crews are "cracking" under the weight of less help, ID's(No coverage) sk(NO coverage), family leave(NO coverage) etc, etc, etc.

One could imagine that the outcome (very similiar, to a bad plumbing problem, in your house), "backs up" on the CSM, which eventually "back up" on the ramp manager, which eventually "backs up" on the GM, which eventually "backs up" on the Division manager, which eventually "backs up" "INTO HDQ."

Then, and only then will they "rethink" their philosophy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly, there was a time when strong union leaders would "explain" this hypothetical "theory" to the affected members.

NH/BB's

 

[DFWCC]

NHBB Bear, Your right. There is a lot of do exactly what your told and no more. If they tell you to take bags to gate C7 and you know the flight has moved to A13. You take them to C7 and let someone else worry wether they make it or not. I don't know how many times especially at shift changeover time whole carts of bags are missed. I think it was 2 carts last wk to BOS. The 70 or so bags missed. "oh well, I did what I was told" The afternoon crew came on they weren't bags for their outbound, "oh well, I had SFO on my gate I never saw those BOS bags."
Bag left on the ramp, "I ain't got time to pick it up, I have to hurry back to load my outbound. We're short a guy that they didn't replace you know"
Any ramper out there knows there are a 100 excuses, especially at the hubs. Everyone is working short. Yea sometines we can get o-time help, But they are already tired and want the money to make up for the pay cut but they work"VERY S-A-F-E" which equates to slower than molasses rolling up hill.

 

[jimntx]

One could imagine that the outcome (very similiar, to a bad plumbing problem, in your house), "backs up" on the CSM, which eventually "back up" on the ramp manager, which eventually "backs up" on the GM, which eventually "backs up" on the Division manager, which eventually "backs up" "INTO HDQ."

Then, and only then will they "rethink" their philosophy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mebbe, mebbe not.

There is also the scenario that when it backed up into HDQ, a committee would be appointed to determine where the system failed. The committee would spend 6 weeks A1-ing around the system to gather information then issue a report showing how it was all the ramp's fault in the first place.

There is a wonderful series of lines in the play, Angels in America, where the Lenin character speaks of the "beautiful theory"--meaning communism, of course. The character goes on to explain that there was nothing wrong with the "beautiful theory", it was Stalin and the people who followed him who caused communism to fail.

As we used to say at Texaco, if the facts do not fit the theory, they (the facts) must be discarded.

 

[DFWCC]

So true, So true and they don't have a clue. They don't even have a clue that "they don't have a clue". Rcently attended a meeting with the ramp manager and the terminal director along with 11 other crew chiefs. This was to be an open dialog to get a pulse of what's goin on. Good idea I thought. Well it got cut short because the TD was late then it went into the RMs problems and what he was going to do and his commitments to the TD and HDQ. It seemed to be a sounding board for his ideas. Anything really controversial was glanced over real quick, "next slide please." Our input, not. It seemed more of a propaganda session to say hey I met with my Crew Chiefs. When the questions started to come. It was "we've already went pass our alloted time....."
. Can you say "NEXT SLIDE PLEASE"
. Next slide reads " they don't have a clue...."