USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
The Market, And The Jobs,
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
You're talking about Pittsburgh here.,.
These are personal choices to stay here and live in Pittsburgh looking for good employment. Sometimes, you just need to move. There are 27,000 jobs here at U. But there are at least 250,000,000 Americans that don't work for U....what could they be doing...living on unemployment or on nothing?
These are personal choices to stay here and live in Pittsburgh looking for good employment. Sometimes, you just need to move. There are 27,000 jobs here at U. But there are at least 250,000,000 Americans that don't work for U....what could they be doing...living on unemployment or on nothing?
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #3
PitBull,
When you read the article "Labor may not pick up tab" and learn that MDA customer service pay is $9 per hour or hear that the "expressed" people are making about $8 per hour, the article doesn't paint any worse picture than what some of our employees are experiencing.
Jim
When you read the article "Labor may not pick up tab" and learn that MDA customer service pay is $9 per hour or hear that the "expressed" people are making about $8 per hour, the article doesn't paint any worse picture than what some of our employees are experiencing.
Jim
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
USA320Pilot,USA320Pilot said:
I doubt many posters here have "really" looked for other employment, and reconciled themselves to reality of what awaits them.
For example, Emirates Airlines is hiring A340 direct-entry Captains that make 1500/mo less than what a 737 FO makes here at US Airways. That is of course after moving your family to the Middle East, and having the pleasure of living there.
Then there are the non-airline jobs, how many posters here are “skilled†in some other trade, and if so, ready to start from scratch at entry level in a new career? When one takes the time to seriously consider what’s out there, a certain clarity will form in a rational mind.
My guess is the majority of militants have not preformed due-diligence about future employment….
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Use your head,UseYourHead said:
Many folks at U are at entry level wages. And MAA is one of the worst of the worst.
Personally, I don't believe "mainline" will look the same in the future as it does today. What holds your butt in the seat and still employed here is seniority, and that is soley due to your contract. But, your future may turn out just what you cite. You're in school. What makes you think others are not. Many folks who VOLUNTARILY took the furlough are in school. Perhaps at your craft there is no work for you at your wage rate, and I can feel the desperation for you and USA320pilot and USfliboi who probably is in some cubicle panic stricken posting every minute while starring out his window. By trying to force folks to see the world through your reality will not work this time as it did last time. Many of U folks have met their "threshold". Obviously, it appears you still have breathing room, which perhaps you shouldn't and their lays your guilt.
sentrido
Veteran
- Jan 8, 2004
- 1,004
- 0
Well I have a new career. When I was still at US I hedged my bets and went back to school.I am not doing nearly as well as I was at US, but I am doing better than I did when I started in aviation. I hurts to have to move on, I really did love what I did. So thats at least one "militant"......
callgirlcindie
Member
- Sep 9, 2002
- 92
- 0
I took the voluntary furlough in Dec 2002. I am currently in school in a health related field. After this semester I have 2 classes to go to get my 2 year degree. A lot of my former co-workers are attending school while still employeed at U. Even though I will start out making less than I did at U, I really enjoy what I am learning and what I will do. When I visit my former co-workers in reservations, they are stressed out, miserable, and still working nights/weekends and shifts they hate. Once you get away from U, you can see things much clearer and realize life is too short to work in a position that ruins you mentally and physically. I hope U makes it for a lot of reasons. But I hope people will take a clear look at what they are doing and make changes if they are so unhappy. There are choices for most people if they will take them.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #9
Since we're playing "show and tell" with prospects of life without US Airways, I thought I'd share the view from my place in the pecking order.
Since I don't know where other posters fit in the pecking order, it is hard for me to compare my position to yours. The one exception is USA320Pilot - while I don't personally know him I do know where I sit relative to him.
Suffice it to say that I am significantly more senior. Likewise I am significantly closer to retirement (2 years 9 months, but who's counting). There is no way that I could start over (in or out of aviation) and come anywhere close to making what I will make if this company survives, even with further concessions. I certainly have sufficient reason to proclaim "Whatever it takes for the company's survival. Throw him overboard if it means keeping my job."
At this point there will be some of you that realize I haven't advocated more "giving" on this forum. Some of you may be thinking I'm about to change my tune. Let me assure all of you that I have not nor will not be advocating more comcessions. Why? There are two basic reasons.
First can be called a sense of fair play. Too many people have given up what was asked, only to be furloughed, expressed, threatened with their jobs being outsourced, etc. Some will say that these things are just the way it is in corporate America today. My reply - that the existence of injustice does not justify injustice. After all, such things as assault, rape, and robbery exist but their existence does not make them right.
Second is the realization that further concessions will not save this company. Immediately before and during bankruptcy, we employees gave over $1 billion a year in concessions. The vendors, suppliers, leasors, etc gave about half that, resulting in $1.8 - $1.9 billion a year. What has that achieved - very little. Prior to bankruptcy, our CASM was 12.25 cents. Last quarter it was 11.70 cents. That's a whopping 4.5% reduction. To get to a 9 cent CASM through concessions would require 5 times what has already been given - over $9 billion. Since our total employee costs are only about half that, we cannot get there from here. If every employee worked for free, we would have CASM about 25% higher than WN.
So what is the answer to oun conundrum? From where I sit, the tools for our survival are the same tools that have been in Dave's hands since he set foot on the property.
Take steps to increase revenue. Simplify the fare structure (as counterintuitive as that sounds), sell last minute upgrades to fc if seats are open, fly the airplanes more creating very low cost (how does under 5 cent CASM sound) seats to sell, etc.
Take steps to increase efficiency. Again, fly the airplanes more (either point-to-point or thru hubs), roll (depeak) the hubs to make them more efficient (and allow the airplanes to fly more), use the gates more frequently (by, guess what - flying the airplanes more), etc.
Until these tools (and others) are utilized, we are doomed. Throwing the employee's money and jobs at the problem will affect the timing, but not the outcome. Therefore, if given the chance, I will vote against any additional concessions. The extra months they might provide is not enough to salve my conscience.
Jim
Since I don't know where other posters fit in the pecking order, it is hard for me to compare my position to yours. The one exception is USA320Pilot - while I don't personally know him I do know where I sit relative to him.
Suffice it to say that I am significantly more senior. Likewise I am significantly closer to retirement (2 years 9 months, but who's counting). There is no way that I could start over (in or out of aviation) and come anywhere close to making what I will make if this company survives, even with further concessions. I certainly have sufficient reason to proclaim "Whatever it takes for the company's survival. Throw him overboard if it means keeping my job."
At this point there will be some of you that realize I haven't advocated more "giving" on this forum. Some of you may be thinking I'm about to change my tune. Let me assure all of you that I have not nor will not be advocating more comcessions. Why? There are two basic reasons.
First can be called a sense of fair play. Too many people have given up what was asked, only to be furloughed, expressed, threatened with their jobs being outsourced, etc. Some will say that these things are just the way it is in corporate America today. My reply - that the existence of injustice does not justify injustice. After all, such things as assault, rape, and robbery exist but their existence does not make them right.
Second is the realization that further concessions will not save this company. Immediately before and during bankruptcy, we employees gave over $1 billion a year in concessions. The vendors, suppliers, leasors, etc gave about half that, resulting in $1.8 - $1.9 billion a year. What has that achieved - very little. Prior to bankruptcy, our CASM was 12.25 cents. Last quarter it was 11.70 cents. That's a whopping 4.5% reduction. To get to a 9 cent CASM through concessions would require 5 times what has already been given - over $9 billion. Since our total employee costs are only about half that, we cannot get there from here. If every employee worked for free, we would have CASM about 25% higher than WN.
So what is the answer to oun conundrum? From where I sit, the tools for our survival are the same tools that have been in Dave's hands since he set foot on the property.
Take steps to increase revenue. Simplify the fare structure (as counterintuitive as that sounds), sell last minute upgrades to fc if seats are open, fly the airplanes more creating very low cost (how does under 5 cent CASM sound) seats to sell, etc.
Take steps to increase efficiency. Again, fly the airplanes more (either point-to-point or thru hubs), roll (depeak) the hubs to make them more efficient (and allow the airplanes to fly more), use the gates more frequently (by, guess what - flying the airplanes more), etc.
Until these tools (and others) are utilized, we are doomed. Throwing the employee's money and jobs at the problem will affect the timing, but not the outcome. Therefore, if given the chance, I will vote against any additional concessions. The extra months they might provide is not enough to salve my conscience.
Jim
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
PITBull,PITbull said:
It is amazing to me that anyone who does not point fingers, and post negative posts is a management plant or whimp. I am simply trying to evaluate any plan on its own merit, and I will not pass judgement prior to seeing details. What I am not, is paniced, or desperate.
I see nothing wrong with that.
I have taken a pay cut equal to 2 FAs yearly pay, don't think it doesn't hurt; however, that doesn't change the situation we all find ourselves in.
Rational thinking, emotion free is the mindset for times like these.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Boeing Boy comments: that the existence of injustice does not justify injustice.
PITbull replies: May I use that in my writings? Happy Valentines Day, BTW, have any plans?
PS: My utmost respect for your post. You are a person of "essence", humanity and logic. You and your kind, make the world go round and give people like me, a reason to exist.
PITbull replies: May I use that in my writings? Happy Valentines Day, BTW, have any plans?
PS: My utmost respect for your post. You are a person of "essence", humanity and logic. You and your kind, make the world go round and give people like me, a reason to exist.
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
- 0
PITBull,PITbull said:
756Pro is who thinks everyone they disagree with is a management plant. It is really kinda funny, as is your idea that I am desperate. I have a feeling that if I were in most folks shoes, I would be desperate.
