The demise of an airline

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Let me also say that the IAM/TWA sent a team of "Consultants, Observers" to the accident sight. They were a group of LST's ( Tech.Grew Chief's) and Inspectors from the Overhaul Base here at MCI and across the system, they were on the boats when wreckage was being recovered. They were at the Hanger where the plane was reconstructed. I personally know, and talked to, two of the Inspectors that were there, one of which is still working at MCI for AA, and what they told me was a whole lot different than what was put out by the N.T.S.B.!!!----- The team was not received well by the Feds! And their expertise was not taken into account at any time! The team ended by writing a report on their conclusions as to what happened to flt.800. That report has been buried, suppressed, by the Government. The IAM's report on TWA Flt.800 is nowhere to be found! ------ Also read this account: http://www.cashill.com/twa800/union_refused.htm

 

[eolesen]

Gee, I can't imagine why the investigators could have possibly thought that the IAM would want to divert responsibility somewhere else other than the fuel tank...

It is so easy to say there's a cover-up, but I think it's a lot more difficult to actually pull one off. I guess it's also a lot easier to sleep thinking someone shot the plane down than it is to believe that it might actually happen a second time...

Regardless, TW800 had nothing to do with TWA's failure, just like PA103 had little to do with Pan Am's failure.

The demise of both carriers is intertwined, but not because of their respective accidents. They were both carriers too slow to adapt to change, and they had too many people at all levels stuck in serious denial about how they operated and what the future held.

It could have just as easily been TWA that died in 1991, and Pan Am ten years later.

The real damage to both carriers was done in the early 80's, and it was irreversable. First, you had carriers like AA, DL, US, and UA operating from inland hubs like IAD, ORD, ATL and CLT. Not only did they have networks that could feed the international flights, but they also had good local markets to draw from.

Then you had cost structure... TW and PA both had their ETOPS operations, but too much of their network was flown with L10's and 741/742's, and it was way to centered on JFK. Why fly via JFK on TW or PA if you could connect in a more convenient and/or reliable airport?...

Then there's the Icahn factor.... if anything, Icahn may have kept TWA alive a few years longer than they would have if Lorenzo had succeeded.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Olsen, I don't doubt you know quit a bet about marketing, and I'd say it's more convenient to just except what the N.T.S.B. has prepackaged for you, but to those who actually work on Aircraft for a living, realize that there was enough ambiguity presented to wonder if anything put out by the Feds had anything founded in reality!-----Obviously you didn't take the time to watch the links I gave you! Union or not, those who went to the sight were skilled, and experienced AMT's! The questions, and issues brought up on the licks are quit legitimate, and haven't been addressed! ----- As for if this effected the perception of the general pubic, TWA's costumers, as to the safety of it's Aircraft,----- You bet it did!!! Did it help, or hinder TWA's business?----- I believe we both know the answer to that one!!!------- Did it put TWA under? No, not in itself, but this did happen at a critical time in TWA's history. And yes, I believe it was one of the many factors that lead to TWA's demise!

 

[eolesen]

I've always been an ops guy, not marketing... I've seen the claims on TW800, and just don't buy it anymore than I buy the moon landings being shot in a studio... If the Army can't cover up a couple guys doing mock S&M photos from an Iraqi prison, and a Governor can't cover up a simple sex trip to South America, I just don't see how you could have a couple dozen Navy or Coasties be able to cover up the shooting down a civilian airliner and taking that many lives....

As for the timing.... TW800 happened in 1995. The airline didn't die for another 6 years. Most passengers couldn't tell you the type of aircraft they're boarding, let alone remember the last time that particular airline had a hull loss. But they'll remember to the penny how much they saved/paid...

 

[Barfbag]

The airline didn't die for another 6 years.

The airline began to die the minute it was gutted by Uncle Carl at the behest of Crandall when all London routes were sold to AMR for a pittance $ 700M.

Where would AMR be tomorrow if the LHR routes were sold off today?

 

[FA Mikey]

700 million is hardly a pittance. AA scored well with the new service because it had a better feed from the airports involved and its huge FF base.

Where would AMR be? Not far off from where it is today. LHR is a piece of a giant puzzle. The value of LHR has diminished now that anyone can fly there. What AA and UAL do have is very primo landing slots. They are turning planes at LHR before most of the newcomers have landed.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----For those who are interested, I did come across this web sight to the IAMAW Disent Report to the N.T.S.B. on TWA Flt. 800:-----http://twa800.com/iamaw/iamaw.pdf----- Sorry! This is not a link, you'll have to type it in!

 

[cybercat]

.

As for the timing.... TW800 happened in 1995.

800 happened in 1996. I remember watching a newscast at the time that mentioned someone flying up from the Pentagon, and wondering why. I remember after 911 hearing FBI's Kalstrom at a news conference saying, "This is the worst terrorist attack since flight 800."

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Now this comes under the classification of speculation, but some people actually feel that because of Flt.800, the Government smoothed the way with Congress when AA proposed it's plan to acquire TWA!----- If true or not, we'll never know!!!

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ----- Now this comes under the classification of speculation, but some people actually feel that because of Flt.800, the Government smoothed the way with Congress when AA proposed it's plan to acquire TWA!----- If true or not, we'll never know!!!

Congress doesn't approve (or disallow) mergers, not of airlines or other companies. Generally, the Justice Department (with help from the FTC and, in case of airlines, the DoT) gives the thumbs up or thumbs down.

Just because some dimwit Representative or Senator held hearings doesn't mean they were in the drivers' seat.

Given that AA was the only serious, viable plan propsed for TWA, how much "smoothing" would have been necessary even if Congress had to say "yes?"

 

[Barfbag]

TWA only proves that bad management trumps good employee moral, it's the reverse here at AMR.

AMR will be around a long time.

 

[MCI transplant]

Congress doesn't approve (or disallow) mergers, not of airlines or other companies. Generally, the Justice Department (with help from the FTC and, in case of airlines, the DoT) gives the thumbs up or thumbs down.

Just because some dimwit Representative or Senator held hearings doesn't mean they were in the drivers' seat.

Given that AA was the only serious, viable plan propsed for TWA, how much "smoothing" would have been necessary even if Congress had to say "yes?"

<_< ------ If I remember correctly, a lot more than just AA/TWA was going on at that time!