Tentative Agreement with APA, APFA, TWU

[swamt]

US and Doug Parker has actually learned an extremely huge amount of experience from all the other lost take overs/mergers that they lost in the past. You guys are claiming that Parker is playing Horton and vise-versa. What about the unions playing both of them in order to help keep all they can in their contracts. Me personally, I don't think anyone is playing anyone here. US is not going to put milions upon millions into another "failed" take over plan. They do in fact have their duck in a row this time. First they will get the unions on board, that's done. Then they will get certain creditors on board, then with the help from creditors and all the unions, they will all apply enough pressure to get the board of directors to finally give into a US buy-out. Somewhere in all this presssure being applied with come from some of the largest investors as well. AA will have to finally throw the towell in. And yes all of AA's management team will be sent packing after US completes the buy-out. Only very few of AA's newest manmagement team will be allowed to stay, but will not be in control, All US management team will have the controlling power at hand. I also think to make sure this gets done and done correctly this time, Parker will have a 3rd party to help with the finacial part of the package, but I don't think it will be another airline, it will more than likely be a very large investment group. Everyone put your seat belts on, here comes the turbulance, and it's going to be a very rough ride...

 

[AANOTOK]

US and Doug Parker has actually learned an extremely huge amount of experience from all the other lost take overs/mergers that they lost in the past. You guys are claiming that Parker is playing Horton and vise-versa. What about the unions playing both of them in order to help keep all they can in their contracts. Me personally, I don't think anyone is playing anyone here. US is not going to put milions upon millions into another "failed" take over plan. They do in fact have their duck in a row this time. First they will get the unions on board, that's done. Then they will get certain creditors on board, then with the help from creditors and all the unions, they will all apply enough pressure to get the board of directors to finally give into a US buy-out. Somewhere in all this presssure being applied with come from some of the largest investors as well. AA will have to finally throw the towell in. And yes all of AA's management team will be sent packing after US completes the buy-out. Only very few of AA's newest manmagement team will be allowed to stay, but will not be in control, All US management team will have the controlling power at hand. I also think to make sure this gets done and done correctly this time, Parker will have a 3rd party to help with the finacial part of the package, but I don't think it will be another airline, it will more than likely be a very large investment group. Everyone put your seat belts on, here comes the turbulance, and it's going to be a very rough ride...

I think one of the biggest selling points to the unions that has not been mentioned thus far is they will have a very strong voice in the direction of the merged carrier now and in the future. AA management always said the same but then ignored all input from the three. Just my opinion, but I do think they will have a major role in the "new" airlines future.

 

[paul1]

ok what jobs are being saved and which one lost?

 

[Beancounter]

Oh dear. YOu don't really think that things will change if US merges with AA, do you? You are simply trading your "current management scumbags" for a set of the same, but with tans!

You like what you see? Try getting our management scumbags to live up to their agreements. The US pilots have over 400 grievances in their backlog. And that's just the pilots! At the rate they are being resolved due to management's intransigence, a 23-year old new hire pilot will be retired before the backlog is resolved. Given that most go to arbitration, and each arbitration takes six months or more, then even if two are three were heard concurrently, well....you do the math.

Have a conversation with any US flight attendant. Do you think there is a reason that 90% of them just voted down the company's contract offer by a 50% margin? That's right, 90% voter turnout with 75% to 25% telling them to stick it. And this after 5 years of negotiations!

There's something funny in that smoke that Parker is blowing up your keister. Hope you sober up before it's too late.

Beware of the smoke NYCbusdriver is blowing up your keister, he has an ulterior motive. The last thing he wants is to have his precious USAPA squashed by the APA. I'm guessing he realizes that he may not be able to keep delaying the NIC.

Maybe we will merge, maybe we won't. My hats off to the American unions for exploring all options for their members. Must be nice to have a union that actually does what is in the best interests of it's membership.

Bean

 

[777 fixer]

Read their contract proposal to the American airlines flight attendants and then we will talk.

And in what bizzaro world do you think Doug Parker is just going to give you what you want? Did it ever occur to you that maybe what he is saying is what you want to hear and the second this merger happens he turns around and does something completly different?

 

[amt66]

And in what bizzaro world do you think Doug Parker is just going to give you what you want? Did it ever occur to you that maybe what he is saying is what you want to hear and the second this merger happens he turns around and does something completly different?

I agree the unions are desperate and will listen to frank Lorenzo if they could!!! This is desperation and most ofbuscwill lose!!! The pilots union has caused all this by being unrealistic and now were all screwed ! Time to start looking for a new job since ours won't be around

 

[WorldTraveler]

US and Doug Parker has actually learned an extremely huge amount of experience from all the other lost take overs/mergers that they lost in the past. You guys are claiming that Parker is playing Horton and vise-versa. What about the unions playing both of them in order to help keep all they can in their contracts. Me personally, I don't think anyone is playing anyone here. US is not going to put milions upon millions into another "failed" take over plan. They do in fact have their duck in a row this time. First they will get the unions on board, that's done. Then they will get certain creditors on board, then with the help from creditors and all the unions, they will all apply enough pressure to get the board of directors to finally give into a US buy-out. Somewhere in all this presssure being applied with come from some of the largest investors as well. AA will have to finally throw the towell in. And yes all of AA's management team will be sent packing after US completes the buy-out. Only very few of AA's newest manmagement team will be allowed to stay, but will not be in control, All US management team will have the controlling power at hand. I also think to make sure this gets done and done correctly this time, Parker will have a 3rd party to help with the finacial part of the package, but I don't think it will be another airline, it will more than likely be a very large investment group. Everyone put your seat belts on, here comes the turbulance, and it's going to be a very rough ride...

of course Parker has learned from his failed merger attempts.. but he hasn't learned how to run an airline with revenues on par with DL, UA, and WN let alone by paying his people salaries even remotely close to what those airlines pay their employees in AVERAGE salaries and benefits.
.
I have yet to hear any evidence of how US - which is the smallest and weakest carrier financially among the big network carriers let alone compared to BA/IAG or non-airline investment companies, is going to provide a superior deal to what other investors will propose.
And I also have yet to hear how US is going to pay off the creditors' claims without taking on billions of additional debt - something AA has already said will be a problem based on the orders they have already placed to update their fleet.
Either US cancels the orders and generates even larger claims or piles on more debt.... but LCC doesn't have the financial strength to promise that it can generate returns to the creditors anywhere close to what larger, financially stronger investors could do.
.
It's simple math - and US is trying once again to come up w/ a deal that eliminates the size disadvantage it currently has - without addressing the fact that those carriers or investors STILL have an advantage which they will use to prevent US from achieving what US wants.

 

[cf6mech]

Love it! ,...... Americans labor/management relations has gone from some what viral but a sense of pride with Crandal, to absolutely toxic and total disgusted/hate,.....with Carty/Horton. I see a new sense of pride and most of all PRODUCTIVITY ! If and when we oust the engineers who have created this train wreck.

 

[Mach85ER]

World,

Give it a rest will you? While you've made some valid points, you're just cheerleading for Horton and company while they continue to alienate and stick it to their employees beyond what is necessary while offering little in any sort of a plan that has been respected by Wall Street.

Read this and get back to us:

http://app5.websitetonight.com/projects/6/1/3/6/613675/uploads/American_and_US_Airways_ver_1.pdf

 

[FWAAA]

From Bob Herbst's analysis:

American and US Airways are at opposite ends of the “labor cost” spectrum for the airline industry. Using either unit labor costs and/or labor costs as a ratio to operating expense/revenue, American is higher than all industry network competitors and US Airways is the lowest.

What he doesn't explain is where the money comes from to raise US employee pay to the post-bankruptcy payrates at AA. AA's 1113 term sheets won't bring down AA's labor costs to the level of US.

 

[Mach85ER]

From Bob Herbst's analysis:



What he doesn't explain is where the money comes from to raise US employee pay to the post-bankruptcy payrates at AA. AA's 1113 term sheets won't bring down AA's labor costs to the level of US.

Parker to IAG, "I've lost at the track and need a bridge loan to get on my feet"

IAG: "Go pound yourself"

Parker: "In that case, I'll be taking AA from you over to Star Alliance, you lose the USA domestic feed and LHR partnership, and my guess is LanTam won't be going over to Oneworld. In a matter of days, you're going to lost all of the Americas from Alaska down to Terra De Fuego, Crikey! It took years for King George to lose the colonies, but still kept Canada and some Caribbean stuff, you guys will cease to exist shortly"

IAG: "Cash or check Ok?"

Parker: "Either one. good doggy"

 

[Duke787]

It looks like the USairways employees have as much as respect for their management as AA does with ours. It looks like a "choice" of a punch in the face or a kick to the nads.

Why is it that the successful airlines treat their employees as a valuable assett. You would think AA's executive's would emulate the successful airlines ideas.

Hopefully Oneworld will get a management team together and create a AA - Jetblue - Alaska merged airline, with the combined management of those airlines and their contracts, or SWA merges with AA, with their management team and their contracts. Just my dream !!!!

 

[Runwaysticker]

It looks like the USairways employees have as much as respect for their management as AA does with ours. It looks like a "choice" of a punch in the face or a kick to the nads.

Why is it that the successful airlines treat their employees as a valuable assett. You would think AA's executive's would emulate the successful airlines ideas.

Hopefully Oneworld will get a management team together and create a AA - Jetblue - Alaska merged airline, with the combined management of those airlines and their contracts, or SWA merges with AA, with their management team and their contracts. Just my dream !!!!

GL with that

 

[Mrs. McFly]

As a 21 year member of apfa I do want to combine with usair. I want those current management scumbags GONE! I also read usairs proposal to the Apfa and I like a lot what I see. I will never trust the current managers at Aa and I am more then willing to give the benefit of doubt to Parker. AA overplayed their cards and now THEY are the ones getting furloughed!

The thing is, I think we are all being played. Never mentioned is how US people feel about this. What has been promised to us at the expense of US? What do they stand to gain? What do we stand to gain, really? Emotions are high, but have the real logistics been worked out?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Beware of the smoke NYCbusdriver is blowing up your keister, he has an ulterior motive. The last thing he wants is to have his precious USAPA squashed by the APA. I'm guessing he realizes that he may not be able to keep delaying the NIC.

Maybe we will merge, maybe we won't. My hats off to the American unions for exploring all options for their members. Must be nice to have a union that actually does what is in the best interests of it's membership.

Bean

Nice try, Beano, but the gas is still coming out your butt.

With 33 years here, the Nic is a non-event to me personally.