Talks get serious between UAL/CO- Where is US in all this?

[yvrusfa]

Click onto the link below to read information regarding the McCaskill-Bond amendment to the recent Omnibus Appropriations Bill and how it would affect a seniority integration with US and AA employee groups:

See Story

The new law states "provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner" and that disputes over seniority be submitted to binding arbitration.

According to the ALPA Communications Department, "ALPA, along with the Association of Flight Attendants and the AFL-CIO’s Transportation Trades Department, worked closely with labor’s allies on Capitol Hill to enact seniority integration legislation that protects U.S. ALPA pilots’ career interests, the Association’s merger policies, and ALPA labor agreements in future merger integrations."

"Signed by the president into law in late December 2007, this legislation ensures that if two ALPA pilot groups merge, the Association’s internal Merger Policy and the pilots’ collectively bargained merger-integration protections will continue to govern as before. If an ALPA pilot group merges with a non-ALPA pilot group, the ALPA pilots involved will also retain the hard-won labor protective merger provisions of their collective bargaining agreements."

"However, the legislation goes further and also guarantees ALPA pilots involved in a non-ALPA merger, and all unionized employees under the Railway Labor Act, at least a minimum standard of protection in future transactions with merging employee groups outside of their union by ensuring a “fair and equitable†seniority integration process under the Allegheny-Mohawk merger provisions, which are incorporated in this law."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Thanks USA320pilot for the info and link to the bill and its provisions....i should have put that in my earlier post! :unsure: oooops!

But, I would urge all US employees and posters on this board to read it. It really could be a very important new law that could affect our futures in any merger, especially one with AA who's unions are allmost all un-AFL affiliated "in-house" groups that historically have not gone by established seniority integration rules.

I have feeling that the next few months are going to be quite interesting in our industry.

 

[US1YFARE]

I have feeling that the next few months are going to be quite interesting in our industry.

You are kidding!

 

[USA320Pilot]

Handicapping the Airline Poker Match

Posted by Dennis K. Berman

NEW YORK (WSJ.com) This is poker at its extreme. The state of an entire industry — and a lifeblood of the country’s economy — is at stake. Here are some important storylines to follow as the airlines begin pairing off in merger talks.

See Story

Will American or US Airways play spoiler?

Let’s jump ahead and suppose that Northwest and Delta pair up, with Continental and United also taking the plunge. That would leave American and USAirways with limited merger options. Might one of them try to bust up an existing deal, potentially creating a competitive and value-destroying contest of wills? Of the two, pay particular attention to USAirways, which already proposed a Delta tie-up over a year ago that fizzled.

 

[rsv4ever]

very sad... AA would suck- we'd be stapled to the bottom of the TWA people!

 

[delta777]

While certainly a possibility, i don't foresee AA attempting to play the spoiler here. The only thing AA would want from a NWA would be its Asian routes/slots, which NWA certainly won't part with, at least not willingly. Assuming we do see the mergers of both DAL/NWA abd UAL/CAL, the divestures alone should be more than enough to satisfy AA and then some. AA and Alaska might be a possibility as well.

As for LCC??? Who knows, but, as with AA, the massive amount of divestures that would almost certainly be required in order for these mergers to pass the Federal Government's sniff test would assure LCC of a plethora of new route possibilities, along with asking for additional slots. Doogie will almost certainly make some noise, but, as has been stated time and again, LCC simply doesn't bring anything to the table that the other big 5 don't already have.

My guess is Doogie will ultimately sit this out, not by choice obviously, but his options are rather limited.

 

[smoot4208]

Do you think that US may try to acquire Jet Blue, to reduce capacity on the east coast, or would that deal just help DL/UA at JFK?

 

[PITbull]

Regards,

USA320Pilot
[/quote]

Thanks for posting that 320. Its good to see some seniority protections, now, LAW.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

AA has a history of stapling. ... ... ... God, I hope AA just keeps on their own side of the runway and leaves LCC alone.

You'e not quite 100% accurate about the "AA stapling", but I don't want this to be my main point. What I'm curious to know is this: assuming there is some kind of a transaction involving AA and US in the future, would the US employees be willing to give up some of their seniority (stapled?) in return for working for a company like AA/AMR? The only negatives as far as I see are: the possibility of a loss of seniority and two, is the loss of jobs (not all current US employees + jobs would survive the transaction). However the positives are better pay, better benefits, and working for a better managed company.

 

[PITbull]

While certainly a possibility, i don't foresee AA attempting to play the spoiler here. The only thing AA would want from a NWA would be its Asian routes/slots, which NWA certainly won't part with, at least not willingly. Assuming we do see the mergers of both DAL/NWA abd UAL/CAL, the divestures alone should be more than enough to satisfy AA and then some. AA and Alaska might be a possibility as well.

As for LCC??? Who knows, but, as with AA, the massive amount of divestures that would almost certainly be required in order for these mergers to pass the Federal Government's sniff test would assure LCC of a plethora of new route possibilities, along with asking for additional slots. Doogie will almost certainly make some noise, but, as has been stated time and again, LCC simply doesn't bring anything to the table that the other big 5 don't already have.

My guess is Doogie will ultimately sit this out, not by choice obviously, but his options are rather limited.

He better NOT be sitting on his butt. He's got a merger to complete, and he needs to sit down and seriously rap this up with the unions to fully merge the company into one if he personally wants any future in the industry. Otherwise, things just get too damn mucked up, and no airline is going to look at LCC, except to get out of the way.

 

[PITbull]

You'e not quite 100% accurate about the "AA stapling", but I don't want this to be my main point. What I'm curious to know is this: assuming there is some kind of a transaction involving AA and US in the future, would the US employees be willing to give up some of their seniority (stapled?) in return for working for a company like AA/AMR? The only negatives as far as I see are: the possibility of a loss of seniority and two, is the loss of jobs (not all current US employees + jobs would survive the transaction).

Let me throw it back at you, the question is would AA?

There's your answer.

 

[autofixer]

In case you did not see it, here is Doug's interview concerning consolidation last week on CNBC. It sounds like he plans to sit it out...at least at first.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=633580323&play=1

 

[N965VJ]

Reading Parker’s statements in the past on the merger game, I really find it hard to believe he is actually willing to sit this dance out.

 

[767jetz]

I heard it with my own ears tonight when I came home from work. They will make their announcement next week. The same commentator also added that UAL and CO are in serious talks for a merger, but no annoucement has been forcasted.

I just had no idea that UAL or CO was looking to merge.

Are you kidding??????????????????????? :huh:

We've been discussing this for weeks, even months, on these boards. With all these threads about US merging with UA, I for one have been saying all along that NW, DL, CO, and UA will be the players in this round of consolidation, and US will be on the sidelines fighting it's civil war between East & West. It's been a well known fact that if DL chose NW, then UA would hook up with CO. In fact (for the ump-teenth time) UA and CO had extensive discussions last year during US flailed attempted takeover of DL.

How could this possibly come as a surprise to you?

 

[sharonstoneseat]

American may launch a shark attack and should be looking to buy. They were hoping for a merger with British Airways but since that has to wait they will need more presence internationally to compensate for competition at Heathrow. I'll bet that American is determined to make Open Skies work for them too.


From the December 3 issue of Barron's

AMR (AMR), which analyst Neidl estimates gets 50% of its international profit from London-U.S. routes, could also face serious turbulence. Since the airline lacks extensive Pacific operations, where demand is strong, any new competition over the North Atlantic will hurt. At a recent 21, AMR's shares are down from more than 40 in January and may well be headed lower. Any further deterioration in the U.S. economy could hit the company hard, since it has a relatively high cost structure.


Delta, which emerged leaner from bankruptcy early this year -- after adding more international capacity in 2006 than all other U.S. airlines combined -- is in a much better position to profit from Open Skies. Despite lack of Heathrow access up to now, the airline is the U.S. leader in trans-Atlantic operations, and a recent pact with Air France will only work to enhance that.

Under that agreement, the two carriers will share costs and revenues on trans-Atlantic routes, allowing Delta to vastly increase its flights to Europe. Starting next April, it will encompass all nonstop flights operated by both airlines between Paris and other French cities and Delta's hubs in Atlanta and Salt Lake City. Also, Delta will use three of Air France's slots at Heathrow to serve points in the United States.

Other than American, in fact, most major U.S. airlines stand to gain from the Open Skies initiative, since it potentially gives them much better access to and around Europe.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Let me throw it back at you, the question is would AA?

What, give up seniority? Already done that.

We've watched people from TWA roll in here at top pay, top vacation acrual ,picking vacation before us,senior to a lot of us, bitching all the while.

Don't yell about staple jobs to me, the TWU went to binding arbitration with the IAM and had a decision issued.That arbitrators decision wasn't acceptable to the TWA people as they've filed lawsuit after lawsuit trying to have the arbitration decision overturned.