Surprise!WN Ontime Rating Takes a Hit

[ITRADE]

[P]The more that I think about this thread and stats in general, the more I come to realize how silly they really have become.[/P]
[P]Think about it. As long as all airlines are within a 10% range of values - typically 75% - I think you can make the argument that the carriers are doing about the same in terms of turn times. As somebody pointed with the UA post, a ranking can get skewed based upon factors totally out of the control of the airline and are not indicative of the airline's efforts to streamline operations:[/P]
[P]1) two blizzards in a month hit New York. CO stats are going to pay the price.[/P]
[P]2) thunderstorms rack Dallas several times in one month. AA, DL, and WN are going to pay the price.[/P]
[P]3) hurricane rumbles across south Florida. AA is going to pay the price[/P]
[P]4) fog holds a deathgrip on SFO for a week. UA is going to pay the price.[/P]
[P]5) not a drop of rain falls on PIT for a month. US is going to reap the benefits.[/P]
[P]See the point?[/P]

 

[Elivs Lives]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/28/2002 952 AM ITRADE wrote:


The more that I think about this thread and stats in general, the more I come to realize how silly they really have become.[/P]


Think about it. As long as all airlines are within a 10% range of values - typically 75% - I think you can make the argument that the carriers are doing about the same in terms of turn times. [/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

While I agree that the OTP stats have assumed a life of their own (in no small part to SWA's own marketing department, i.e. the Triple Crown, etc), and its importance somewhat overstated, I disagree about the turn times being the same. If SWA had 45 to 90 minutes between legs, I'm certain the OTP would increase and probably very dramatically. The fact that SWA has 20 to 30 minute turns serving point to point and is even competitive with the hub & spoke behemoths (or is leviathans?) in OTP I think is pretty amazing.

One other observation about ACARS times and SWA pilot times that has been mentioned in this thread (and others ad nauseum): If it weren't so funny, it would be scary the number of grassy knoll gunman conspiracy obsessed people in this business. When we push back from the gate, I have little clock set to UTC that I look at and record the time. When we arrive at the other end, I look at that little clock again and write down the time. What ever it is. Could one get creative with time keeping? Perhaps, but at what cost? Say you pushed 22 late but you call out on time. What happens when you get to other end 22 minutes late? Well you lied to your employer and you received financial gain from said lie (extra 22 minutes over block time increases your pay by 0.3 trips or almost a half hour in hourly rates). Lying and stealing will get you canned here quicker than any other single thing. Let's say on they way, your brain engages and you realize that stealing is wrong, so you lie about your in time to the next station. The Ops Agent has 25 minutes to turn the plane and you just reported in on time. So now he or she has three minutes to turn the plane. The Ops Agent isn't going to appreciate taking the delay so that the previous station can be on time and will, quite understandibly, raise the BS flag. So you get a call from the Chief Pilot asking if you know how to tell time and if you can't, maybe you should come to DAL and see what else you don't know. I guess if the OTP meant that much to you, you could enlist several carefully vetted Ops Agents and Dispatchers as confederates in keeping your flight On time, all day without stealing from the company. That takes a lot of work and I'm usually more interested in finding something to eat (which can be difficult in MCI or ISP) and actually trying to stay on time the old fashioned way... by busting ass. From one who is there on the line, it don't matter how you report the times, ACARS, homing pigeon, semaphore, ALDIS lamp, or by the persons responsible for the whole deal anyway, it really wouldn't change much. While I'd like to see ACARS (that D-ATIS is like, really cool, you know), it's not really needed and the benefits do not outweigh the costs, IMHO. When it becomes cost effective or mandated, SWA will get it. As it should be.

And now, A little less conversation,

Elvis

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

[blockquote]
On 9/25/2002 7:28:02 PM KCFlyer wrote:
But I wonder, what does ACARS do when the door is closed and the parking brakes released? It'd be kind of interesting to see what the early departure numbers looked like for the ACARS boys while they are sitting there attached to the ground tug and waiting for pushback.
[/blockquote]

They probably correlate pretty tightly with the arrival numbers... But does it really matter? When you get there is what the stats are based on...

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/29/2002 1047 PM eolesen wrote:
[P][/P][BR]They probably correlate pretty tightly with the arrival numbers... But does it really matter? When you get there is what the stats are based on...
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]True enough, Eric, but I just kind of wonder if the FAA will ever start a complaint categore for I was at the gate 10 minutes before the departure time and the doors were closed and they wouldn't let me on. If they did, buttoning up 10 minutes before pushback might begin to look just as bad as penciling in a bogus arrival time. I mean, as far as that passenger is concern, his flight was REALLY late...he had to take the later one. [/P]

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/30/2002 12:30:33 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Point of order - while "on time" doesn't track departure times, only arrival times, why should be not believe that poster, but take as the gospel truth that LUV pilots are pencil whipping arrival times??[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

Well, for one, there have been LUV pilots who've admitted to it on the PB board. i'm telling you that I've NEVER seen it, and a pilot would have plenty of happy time in front of a FM if it actually happened. Safety is NEVER compromised, and if the poster has had it happen it, all he'd have to do is report it and heads would roll.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/30/2002 11:41:57 AM wts54 wrote:

UAL has some real inprovements in ontime performance,but the pilots for one
will pop the brakes and reset them while still sitting at the gate thereby
looking like we were "ontime".This really angers me because the rampers may
still be working on the aircraft and I may not be in the tractor if the aircraft starts to roll.I dont want anyone hurt for a ontime departure,besides its unethical.
----------------
[/blockquote]

NEVER EVER have I seen or heard of this happening. It wouldn't matter anyway, On-time perf is based on arrival time. The only thing ontime departures matter for is YOUR stations performance (bonuses).

 

[wts54]

By that I mean if a delay exists a meter will be sent to our printers
alerting us a flight took a delay.You have to enter a reason for it.The
F.A.A. will ultimately get involved if it is not answered.

 

[wts54]

UAL has some real inprovements in ontime performance,but the pilots for one
will pop the brakes and reset them while still sitting at the gate thereby
looking like we were ontime.This really angers me because the rampers may
still be working on the aircraft and I may not be in the tractor if the aircraft starts to roll.I dont want anyone hurt for a ontime departure,besides its unethical.

 

[wts54]

You sir are misinformed.If a flight is late we at UAL must report the reason
or the govt will actually call the maint manager..

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/30/2002 12:17:25 PM Busdrvr wrote:[/P]
[P][BR]NEVER EVER have I seen or heard of this happening.  It wouldn't matter anyway, On-time perf is based on arrival time.  The only thing ontime departures matter for is YOUR stations performance (bonuses).[/P]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Point of order - while on time doesn't track departure times, only arrival times, why should be not believe that poster, but take as the gospel truth that LUV pilots are pencil whipping arrival times??[/P]

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/30/2002 12:56:36 PM wts54 wrote:

Also the ramp waits until the ramp foremen knows the brakes are off to load bags on the gate,or in the alley.

I've loaded bags after push while the #1 engine is turning, nothing wrong with that. If your local guys are playing games to get an on-time for THIER pay, they are just cheating the company, not the government or other airlines.


The point is it is then not an ontime departure
and departures are tracked by the govt.

The DOT ONLY reports on-time departures by AIRPORT not AIRLINE. For the complete listing see
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/200...02/0209atcr.pdf
Again, I say it doesn't happen, but if you think so strongly that it does, then you are not doing YOUR job by following up on the situation. What you are insinuationg is grounds for folks to get fired and if it's true, you should be canned for letting it happen

----------------
[/blockquote]

 

[wts54]

I have tried to report it but to no avail to corporate safety at WHQ.The
situation exists and every mechanic on the line at L.A.X knows it.Also the
ramp waits until the ramp foremen knows the brakes are off to load bags on the gate,or in the alley.The point is it is then not an ontime departure
and departures are tracked by the govt.Ethics is something you believe in
and practice.Not just when its convenient for the corp.

 

[wts54]

And the F.A.A IS A GOVT AGENCY isnt it??

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/30/2002 2:00:40 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Lesson one on the interet, grasshopper - unless you know the person personally, NEVER believe all that they claim to be. [/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

Good point! who is this WTS guy

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/30/2002 12:41:08 PM Busdrvr wrote:
[P][/P][BR]Well, for one, there have been LUV pilots who've admitted to it on the PB board.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Lesson one on the interet, grasshopper - unless you know the person personally, NEVER believe all that they claim to be. [/P]