SueAPFA Group Retains NY Law Firms
- Thread starter MiAAmi
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Skyyggoddess
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MiAAmi,
I want a legal vote.
Unless you've had your head buried in the sand, you should realize that the path APFA has set is a very slippery slope.
Every day this union is negotiating away your contract and violating your constitution. What happens when next year, they negotiate away your retirement, and as has been lately, they don't put it out for a membership vote? If you decide to challenge it at that point, a judge or an arbitrator will simply say, "You know what, you have let your union do this on all of these previous occasions." Then they will rule against you and your pension is gone.
Miaami, its about protecting my future, your future and every other F/A's future. This union has run amuk with power.
Terry
I want a legal vote.
Unless you've had your head buried in the sand, you should realize that the path APFA has set is a very slippery slope.
Every day this union is negotiating away your contract and violating your constitution. What happens when next year, they negotiate away your retirement, and as has been lately, they don't put it out for a membership vote? If you decide to challenge it at that point, a judge or an arbitrator will simply say, "You know what, you have let your union do this on all of these previous occasions." Then they will rule against you and your pension is gone.
Miaami, its about protecting my future, your future and every other F/A's future. This union has run amuk with power.
Terry
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On 8/7/2003 11:42:19 AM Skyyggoddess wrote:
Every day this union is negotiating away your contract and violating your constitution.
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On 8/7/2003 11:42:19 AM Skyyggoddess wrote:
Every day this union is negotiating away your contract and violating your constitution.
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A bit dramatic don't you think? If your going to complain about things not being democratic don't turn around and try doing the same thing you accuse the union leadership of. Follow the process that is Democratic. I may not be a big fan of our leadership but time will come when I will cast my vote.
Skyyggoddess
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Okay, Miaami, I give up with you. You deserve everything you get.
Oh and btw, I am following the process set up in our Constitution.
Terry
Oh and btw, I am following the process set up in our Constitution.
Terry
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On 8/7/2003 12:18:39 PM Skyyggoddess wrote:
Okay, Miaami, I give up with you. You deserve everything you get.
Oh and btw, I am following the process set up in our Constitution.
Terry
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On 8/7/2003 12:18:39 PM Skyyggoddess wrote:
Okay, Miaami, I give up with you. You deserve everything you get.
Oh and btw, I am following the process set up in our Constitution.
Terry
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This is exactly why you don't have my support! You jump on this forum seeking support and when someone challenges your view you give up. You haven't convinced me or many other flight attendants that you have anyones best interest in mind except your own. What makes you think that you know better than the membership whats best for us as a whole? Remember the vote was almost even when it came to concessions.
I think many flight attendants are confused. I got petitions handed to me on the jet bridge telling me to send them back to sueAPFA.org, but they were petitions drawn up by newpafa, another group seeking to replace the national officers.
I agree the leadership has let us down, but it appears the grassroots efforts are still a bit unorganized, and new leadership will be up for grabs in the winter when they hold national officer elections.
I agree the leadership has let us down, but it appears the grassroots efforts are still a bit unorganized, and new leadership will be up for grabs in the winter when they hold national officer elections.
Skyyggoddess
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S80Dude,
You are right about the confusion and being unorganized. The problem has been mostly timing and of course lack of money to finance an organization.
SueAPFA has only been around for a couple of months. In the beginning, all our energy went in to just filing our charges on time (by APFA constitution you are only allowed 60 days from the time that you learn of the offense.) Those six charges were all dismissed by the union, so we had to rush to get the appeals out (APFA only gives you 7 days to respond).
We had to exhaust all internal remedies (which we have). Now that the initial hurdle is over, it allows us more time to organize. Contacting almost 26,000 F/A's is a daunting task, especially when you start out with a budget of zero dollars. If it wasn't for the internet, I doubt we would have had the number of people filing charges as we did.
Terry
F/A IDF
You are right about the confusion and being unorganized. The problem has been mostly timing and of course lack of money to finance an organization.
SueAPFA has only been around for a couple of months. In the beginning, all our energy went in to just filing our charges on time (by APFA constitution you are only allowed 60 days from the time that you learn of the offense.) Those six charges were all dismissed by the union, so we had to rush to get the appeals out (APFA only gives you 7 days to respond).
We had to exhaust all internal remedies (which we have). Now that the initial hurdle is over, it allows us more time to organize. Contacting almost 26,000 F/A's is a daunting task, especially when you start out with a budget of zero dollars. If it wasn't for the internet, I doubt we would have had the number of people filing charges as we did.
Terry
F/A IDF
Skyyggoddess
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MiAAmi,
It is so tempting to become the thorn in your side, but I will resist. At the risk of boring everyone on this bb with our bickering, I won't get into arguments with you that will go no where. I'll just ignore your posts.
I will answer any legitimate questions that I can about who we are and what our goals are, but I will not get into a one upsmanship with you.
And unless you are the censure police, I will post on here when I like...don't try to intimidate me or manipulate me, it won't work.
Terry
F/A IDF
It is so tempting to become the thorn in your side, but I will resist. At the risk of boring everyone on this bb with our bickering, I won't get into arguments with you that will go no where. I'll just ignore your posts.
I will answer any legitimate questions that I can about who we are and what our goals are, but I will not get into a one upsmanship with you.
And unless you are the censure police, I will post on here when I like...don't try to intimidate me or manipulate me, it won't work.
Terry
F/A IDF
By the time your court case makes its way thru the system to a final outcome, AMR will have recovered and the concessionary contract will have been reopened and renegoiated. In other words, you'll be employing lawyers for years and years.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
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On 8/8/2003 12:28:34 PM FWAAA wrote:
By the time your court case makes its way thru the system to a final outcome, AMR will have recovered and the concessionary contract will have been reopened and renegoiated. In other words, you'll be employing lawyers for years and years.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
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And so what is the alternative? To sit back and watch your union leaders violate the law and do nothing about it? You have to stand up against tyranny at some point, else you are surely doomed to complete and utter failure!On 8/8/2003 12:28:34 PM FWAAA wrote:
By the time your court case makes its way thru the system to a final outcome, AMR will have recovered and the concessionary contract will have been reopened and renegoiated. In other words, you'll be employing lawyers for years and years.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
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galleyguy4u2
I admire your post and integrity. I have to agree with everything you say and no I am not TWA, but AA, and also now furloughed. Its really sad when a union, who is supposed to look out for its memership, is actually in bed with management. For those of you on the line, I truely hope that you can turn this fiasco of a contract around and make it a better place to come back to work at. Right now, I feel that being furloughed, I may be the lucky one. For those of you who don't think there is life outside of AA. I am living proof that there is. Goodluck to my fellow coworkers still on the line and to those who are still looking for work. The APFA is merely AA Management in disguise. Stop drinking thier kool aide and wakeup. There needs to be a change!
I admire your post and integrity. I have to agree with everything you say and no I am not TWA, but AA, and also now furloughed. Its really sad when a union, who is supposed to look out for its memership, is actually in bed with management. For those of you on the line, I truely hope that you can turn this fiasco of a contract around and make it a better place to come back to work at. Right now, I feel that being furloughed, I may be the lucky one. For those of you who don't think there is life outside of AA. I am living proof that there is. Goodluck to my fellow coworkers still on the line and to those who are still looking for work. The APFA is merely AA Management in disguise. Stop drinking thier kool aide and wakeup. There needs to be a change!
galleyguy4u2
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Hi Skygoddess:
I absolutly agree with getting rid of ALL the clowns at APFA. My only problem is that I am a furloughed TWA f/a and of course I will not support any legal action that may be against my base chair Sherry Cooper. If she is not named in your lawsuit then you will have our full support to rid ourselves of the real cancer....WARDO.
I remember our last two contracts since we rid ourselves of Uncle Carl...we had a gun to our heads each and every time. However, when we gave something up such as receiving smaller pay raises and incentives we received great work rules in exchange. We never gave something to the company for free. And yes we went through two BK'S and fared far better than your current cram down and our votes were counted only once and not twice. If anyone would be interested in seeing our workrules prior to the AA fiasco, I would be happy to post them for you. Just post a question about our contract and I will provide our old contract language. Obviously I can't post the entire contract as it would take a lawyer to interpet the language like all contracts.
I feel sorry for all you guy's that voted NO and have to deal with this crap that was shoved illegally down your throats. For you YES voters, you are paying for it now. I have no pity. We had some very talented former IFFA and IAM f/a's who offered to assist APFA in talks with AA and I truly believe your entire contract would not be totally in the toilet as it is now. I think it was the fear factor that exploited the Yes voters, from the company and the Union. Remember this cram down was not about seniority, it was about quality of life and keeping intact as much of the contract as possible. Whenever AA threw their trump card of BK in the faces of the f/a's everyone thought it was the end. Far from it and the NO voters knew it as well as the TWA f/a's.
Joh Wart and his cronies have set the f/a profession back over 30yrs. It will take us years to crawl back to your last contract even when AA becomes profitable again. AA has a history of not being labor friendly. You guy's know that. One of my nAAtive best friends told me a long time ago, you will love working with us but you will HATE management. Well, I never had the chance to work with the AA f/a's but he was right about AA management.
As far as APFA is concerned, I have no problem with APFA. You can give a Union any name, it's only as good as the leadership. Right now you have a dictatorship and Sadam Ward is at the helm.
Well I have pontificated long enough. I hope you get rid of him and make him abide by the constitution. When and if I return I sure do not want to work under your present work rule environment.
I absolutly agree with getting rid of ALL the clowns at APFA. My only problem is that I am a furloughed TWA f/a and of course I will not support any legal action that may be against my base chair Sherry Cooper. If she is not named in your lawsuit then you will have our full support to rid ourselves of the real cancer....WARDO.
I remember our last two contracts since we rid ourselves of Uncle Carl...we had a gun to our heads each and every time. However, when we gave something up such as receiving smaller pay raises and incentives we received great work rules in exchange. We never gave something to the company for free. And yes we went through two BK'S and fared far better than your current cram down and our votes were counted only once and not twice. If anyone would be interested in seeing our workrules prior to the AA fiasco, I would be happy to post them for you. Just post a question about our contract and I will provide our old contract language. Obviously I can't post the entire contract as it would take a lawyer to interpet the language like all contracts.
I feel sorry for all you guy's that voted NO and have to deal with this crap that was shoved illegally down your throats. For you YES voters, you are paying for it now. I have no pity. We had some very talented former IFFA and IAM f/a's who offered to assist APFA in talks with AA and I truly believe your entire contract would not be totally in the toilet as it is now. I think it was the fear factor that exploited the Yes voters, from the company and the Union. Remember this cram down was not about seniority, it was about quality of life and keeping intact as much of the contract as possible. Whenever AA threw their trump card of BK in the faces of the f/a's everyone thought it was the end. Far from it and the NO voters knew it as well as the TWA f/a's.
Joh Wart and his cronies have set the f/a profession back over 30yrs. It will take us years to crawl back to your last contract even when AA becomes profitable again. AA has a history of not being labor friendly. You guy's know that. One of my nAAtive best friends told me a long time ago, you will love working with us but you will HATE management. Well, I never had the chance to work with the AA f/a's but he was right about AA management.
As far as APFA is concerned, I have no problem with APFA. You can give a Union any name, it's only as good as the leadership. Right now you have a dictatorship and Sadam Ward is at the helm.
Well I have pontificated long enough. I hope you get rid of him and make him abide by the constitution. When and if I return I sure do not want to work under your present work rule environment.
Skyyggoddess
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Hi Galley guy,
I certainly understand your loyalty to Sherry. It seems she has been a tireless advocate for you all. Sherry is mentioned in only one of the six charges and that is concerning resolution 1a. She agreed along with Bott & Co. to changing our voting time from a 30 day paper ballot to a 15 day phone vote.
There are definitely people who are serial offenders of our constitution and then there is someone like Sherry who is not.
I hope that God opens up wonderful, new doors for all of you who are furloughed. This job will never be the same. You were so right when you said that our officials set this job back 30 years. In fact, it is worse than that because not only are the working conditions horrific, the morale is in the toilet, too. The only other jobs with as lousy and dangerous working conditions are those in the military in a war zone. Even the police and fire department are allowed a decent rest period between shifts.
Terry
I certainly understand your loyalty to Sherry. It seems she has been a tireless advocate for you all. Sherry is mentioned in only one of the six charges and that is concerning resolution 1a. She agreed along with Bott & Co. to changing our voting time from a 30 day paper ballot to a 15 day phone vote.
There are definitely people who are serial offenders of our constitution and then there is someone like Sherry who is not.
I hope that God opens up wonderful, new doors for all of you who are furloughed. This job will never be the same. You were so right when you said that our officials set this job back 30 years. In fact, it is worse than that because not only are the working conditions horrific, the morale is in the toilet, too. The only other jobs with as lousy and dangerous working conditions are those in the military in a war zone. Even the police and fire department are allowed a decent rest period between shifts.
Terry
jimntx
Veteran
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On 8/8/2003 11:36:31 AM Skyyggoddess wrote:
MiAAmi,
It is so tempting to become the thorn in your side, but I will resist. At the risk of boring everyone on this bb with our bickering, I won't get into arguments with you that will go no where. I'll just ignore your posts.
I will answer any legitimate questions that I can about who we are and what our goals are, but I will not get into a one upsmanship with you.
And unless you are the censure police, I will post on here when I like...don't try to intimidate me or manipulate me, it won't work.
Terry
F/A IDF
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Terry, Stark isn't the only AA flight attendant whose philosophy is "My mind is made up. Don't try to confuse me with facts."On 8/8/2003 11:36:31 AM Skyyggoddess wrote:
MiAAmi,
It is so tempting to become the thorn in your side, but I will resist. At the risk of boring everyone on this bb with our bickering, I won't get into arguments with you that will go no where. I'll just ignore your posts.
I will answer any legitimate questions that I can about who we are and what our goals are, but I will not get into a one upsmanship with you.
And unless you are the censure police, I will post on here when I like...don't try to intimidate me or manipulate me, it won't work.
Terry
F/A IDF
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Jim
