Stock Tanks!

[StraaightTaalk]

Good luck. Hope your carrier doesn't go AwAAy.

And you still want specific examples of Jetblue employees wishing ill on the employees of the majors?

I rest my case.

 

[funguy2]

Was there some news that led to this???

Bad financial month?

Major holder dumping position?

My guess is that the "news" is that AWA added transcons JFK-LAX/SFO... As low as $99 each way... AWA's fares naturally touch-ed off an AA/UA/DL response at LAX as well as LGB/SNA scurmish with JB. You may remember AA in particular offering very low fares to LGB but keeping the fares very high to LAX. Also, now that $198 roundtrips available to LAX on 4 airlines, so some folks choose not to go to LGB. Therefore, there is yield and traffic pressure on JB's transcons.

I think that is the "news".

IMHO

 

[Ch. 12]

Good luck. Hope your carrier doesn't go AwAAy.

And you still want specific examples of Jetblue employees wishing ill on the employees of the majors?

I rest my case.

First of all...I don't represent JetBlue. I can see both AMR and JBLU from the same vantage point so I am not held to emotional biases.

Now...back to topic...I just find it quite interesting that the AA folks make this sound like the delude of JBLU when, in fact, the last time I checked, a price of 28.47 is far better than 11.67. Who cares if the stock went down? It is still high compared with the airline industry.

I tend to agree that the AWA announcement did not help JBLU but it is not anywhere near the catastrophe that some have made it out to be. There's still plenty of room for JBLU and for the forward thinking that they bring. Perhaps if the AA people spent as much effort concentrating on their own issues, AMR would be more efficient and wouldn't need to constantly seek concessions.

 

[Kyle]

Please stay on topic. No personal attacks and please refrain from posting wind-up posts/topics as per our rules. The original poster was, in our view, winding-up and we apologize we did not get to this topic earlier.

We will leave this discussion open since it does seem to have some value for now.

 

[AAmech]

constantly seek concessions.

"Constantly"? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration?

 

[Flying Titan]

Funny that Merrill (and only Merrill) upgraded JBLU. Of course, they did the JBLU IPO and are in the Needle's hip pocket.

Can you say "self-interest" boys and girls? I knew you could.

BTW, even with today's 'ups' JBLU is still DOWN 11%.

No, not just Merrill (which now lists JBLU as a buy). Raymond James has raised JBLU to market outperform.

In any case, why wish ill on others? Get your own house in order first. I'm sure that there are many on this board who would also wish SWA employees ill, as well -but the fact is that there are many there who are making more money than at other carriers because of their stock holdings. As the company does well, they do well. They've figured out what works. Obviously, the majors haven't quite worked that out yet.

I say this as a passenger - mostly on major carriers, but sometimes on JBLU, as well. Competition is healthy - in the airlne biz and every other business, as well. What's not healthy is the sentiment of glee expressed by some on this board at the prospect of employees of other companies losing money. There's just something kinda sick about that.

As for why the stock went down, I believe it has something to do with the fact that JBLU is likely to come in with about a 13- to 14-percent profit margin for the quarter rather than the 17- to 19-percent that had been projected. Any other airlines expecting to show a 13-percent profit margin for the quarter please step forward.

 

[funguy2]

I tend to agree that the AWA announcement did not help JBLU but it is not anywhere near the catastrophe that some have made it out to be. There's still plenty of room for JBLU and for the forward thinking that they bring. Perhaps if the AA people spent as much effort concentrating on their own issues, AMR would be more efficient and wouldn't need to constantly seek concessions.

I would agree that it is not a catastrophe... But given the amount of ASM's JBLU has invested in the transcon market and the yield/traffic deterioration that JBLU will experience based on AWA's new service is the only material development on the transcon scene. The wild-fires, while horrible, were no worse than a good hurricane or blizzard in airline terms (i.e. flight cancelations, sales impact, etc).

JBLU basically announced that its PROFIT MARGIN would drop from 17% to 14%. Hardly a catastrophe, except that JBLU's very high stock price commanded excellent returns. Any slight shake to that confidence, and Wall St. goes nuts... By airline standards, a profit margin of 14% is still an excellent result, as very few airlines have a profit margin to speak of...

JBLU will continue to do fine, however, at least in the near term. I am sure they have several opportunities "up their sleeves".

 

[2shrtdks]

Fubijaakr started this line with a personal attack on Jetblue airline employees and their livelihood. He has stated previously that he, and I assure you not ALPA, believes all non-union employees are “scabs.â€￾ This seems to be his problem with Jetblue. As Jetblue grows it may become unionized in the same progression as the other carriers. ALPA would love to invite the pilots to join us for our mutual benefit. I know who Fubijaakr is though I will not give out his name; he can do that for himself if he chooses. He does not hold a high office in the union because he has been voted down on several occasions. I believe it is fair to say he is not representative of Alaska pilots or its union. Competition is healthy and I hope the best for all of you. He has had training problems so I’m sure he knows the benefit of pilots helping pilots. I hope you guys will be swimming in a river of money on your stock. Enlightened self-interest makes me believe it will only make negotiations easier for pilots at all airlines. Good luck.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

By accepting work for less than union wages, you essentially drive down the market rate...bottom line...

While you may not be SCABS in the strictest sense of the word, you are no better than SCABS.

 

[B6Busdriver]

By accepting work for less than union wages, you essentially drive down the market rate...bottom line...

While you may not be SCABS in the strictest sense of the word, you are no better than SCABS.

So what should we get paid. Please don't say industry standard. Be specific.

 

[2shrtdks]

So since we all make less than Delta, we are all scabs. If that were true no ALPA pilot would move a plane at any airline until all pilots were paid the same. It is possible but not anytime soon. I'm not willing to stay home just because Delta gets paid more, and I'm not about to judge someone who doesn't stay home if they get paid less than me. It is up to us, to organize. One world union just dosen't spontaniously arrive if that is what you want. Motivate don't just guilt.

 

[FWAAA]

By accepting work for less than union wages, you essentially drive down the market rate...bottom line...

While you may not be SCABS in the strictest sense of the word, you are no better than SCABS.

What a hilarious post. Your use of the term "market rate" is particularly amusing. 😀

I get it - the market rate can only increase, right? No such thing as a decline in the market rate for labor. 😀

Is labor the only input which can never decrease in price? What about fuel? Is it allowed to go down in price? If the market in Jet-A is allowed to fluctuate, why not labor? What sets labor apart so that its market is one-way (only up, according to you)?? B)

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I get it - the market rate can only increase, right? No such thing as a decline in the market rate for labor. 😀

Is labor the only input which can never decrease in price? What about fuel? Is it allowed to go down in price? If the market in Jet-A is allowed to fluctuate, why not labor? What sets labor apart so that its market is one-way (only up, according to you)?? B)

Market rate is set by the lowest paying competing carrier, according to the father of B-scale, Robert Crandall. In the 1980's, it was Continental and People Express who were setting the new low standard...now it is JetBlue...

So, if labor costs are supposed to be fluid, downward, why does management never seem to take the same hit, IF ANY, that the union groups are expected to give up?

By your reasoning, your paycheck should be at least 30 percent less, when taking into account pay and productivity improvements.

If you have not suffered such a loss, I suggest you donate a portion of your managment paycheck to AA each month...I am sure they would take it.

 

[KCFlyer]

Market Rate is set by the market. Not by a union. If the free market were allowed to rule, a pilot at American could start at Delta for whatever his expericence was worth. But...if he were a 15 year captain at American and wanted to move to Delta, then he'd be paid as much as a new hire straight out of Comair academy is paid for a first officers position. That's the union definition of "market value". How many Braniff pilots slid right in to the left seat of an AA 727? I think a lot of those guys had tons of 727 experience, considering that the vast majority of their fleet was 727's - but it wasn't worth anymore than a kid with 500 hours in a Cessna as far as the union was concerned.

 

[Blue Dude]

Market rate is set by the lowest paying competing carrier, according to the father of B-scale, Robert Crandall. In the 1980's, it was Continental and People Express who were setting the new low standard...now it is JetBlue...

Does anyone want to take a crack at the very obvious error in this statement?