Spirit pilots strike. Merged topic

[SparrowHawk]

What exactly are the issues that resulted in the impasse?

Something to keep in mind. Spirit bills itself as an Ultra Low Cost Carrier and since most of us who post here know that the 2 single biggest line items of any airline is fuel and labor it would stand to reason their upper limit on labor would be significantly lower than the Majors. Or are block time and work rules the isssue instead of pay rates.

I've had the pleasure of meeting Ben Baldanza and he by no means "Scum" as mentioned here. He's a hard nosed businessman who has taken a poor performing airline to profitability and growth during a time when there has been precious little of either.

So given the above I think it's in the best interests of all affected parties that some hard nosed negotiating take place sooner rather than later.

 

[lostplanetairman]

What exactly are the issues that resulted in the impasse?

Something to keep in mind. Spirit bills itself as an Ultra Low Cost Carrier and since most of us who post here know that the 2 single biggest line items of any airline is fuel and labor it would stand to reason their upper limit on labor would be significantly lower than the Majors. Or are block time and work rules the isssue instead of pay rates.

I've had the pleasure of meeting Ben Baldanza and he by no means "Scum" as mentioned here. He's a hard nosed businessman who has taken a poor performing airline to profitability and growth during a time when there has been precious little of either.

So given the above I think it's in the best interests of all affected parties that some hard nosed negotiating take place sooner rather than later.

Since you have mentioned many times that you have had the pleasure of meeting him, perhaps you can talk with him.

The MEC has been trying to negotiate in good faith since 2006 when the contract expired. In fact the investors asked that negotiations begin early to wrap things up and the pilots agreed. Many items were agreed to. Then the company pulled out and refused to negotiate. Then they presented Contract 9000 as a take it or leave it.

The company made $107 million in profit in 2009 during the worst recession since the Great Depression. The pilots are paid less than any of their industry LCC peers--by 40%. Instead, the company wanted $30 million in concessions while raising fees to the consumer.

The typical captain at Spirit has 20+ years experience and 15,000 - 20,000 flight hours.

First Officers at Spirit are equally qualified, and typically have between 10 and 20 years flying experience and average 8,000 - 12,000 hours of flight time.

These professionals contributed to that growth and profitability. They helped the company with their last contract after 9/11. And now they fly into the Andes.

They deserve to be treated as professionals because they are. The pilots did not want to strike. The pilots want to fly--that is their profession; that is their career.

It is hoped that the company will continue to negotiate and will do so in good faith towards a speedy resolution that is fair.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I wish you all the best & thanks for taking a stand for the rest of us.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Since you have mentioned many times that you have had the pleasure of meeting him, perhaps you can talk with him.

The MEC has been trying to negotiate in good faith since 2006 when the contract expired. In fact the investors asked that negotiations begin early to wrap things up and the pilots agreed. Many items were agreed to. Then the company pulled out and refused to negotiate. Then they presented Contract 9000 as a take it or leave it.

The company made $107 million in profit in 2009 during the worst recession since the Great Depression. The pilots are paid less than any of their industry LCC peers--by 40%. Instead, the company wanted $30 million in concessions while raising fees to the consumer.

The typical captain at Spirit has 20+ years experience and 15,000 - 20,000 flight hours.

First Officers at Spirit are equally qualified, and typically have between 10 and 20 years flying experience and average 8,000 - 12,000 hours of flight time.

These professionals contributed to that growth and profitability. They helped the company with their last contract after 9/11. And now they fly into the Andes.

They deserve to be treated as professionals because they are. The pilots did not want to strike. The pilots want to fly--that is their profession; that is their career.

It is hoped that the company will continue to negotiate and will do so in good faith towards a speedy resolution that is fair.

If I thought it was my place to speak to him I would and I thank you for the vote of confidence in my negotiating skills. That said I would gently ask you again what is the primary stumbling block?

You also remember that given their business model they will NEVER be the pay leader so common sense has to take hold somewhere someplace. I'm generally on the side of those who earn a paycheck and if I were on the MEC I'd go after an industry leading profit sharing program! as opposed to higher hourly pay. Ben by your own words has demonstrated he knows how to turn a buck, you just need to get you fair share of it.

 

[lostplanetairman]

If I thought it was my place to speak to him I would and I thank you for the vote of confidence in my negotiating skills. That said I would gently ask you again what is the primary stumbling block?

You also remember that given their business model they will NEVER be the pay leader so common sense has to take hold somewhere someplace. I'm generally on the side of those who earn a paycheck and if I were on the MEC I'd go after an industry leading profit sharing program! as opposed to higher hourly pay. Ben by your own words has demonstrated he knows how to turn a buck, you just need to get you fair share of it.

The pilots are not asking to be pay leaders. They are asking to be paid on par with their peers at Jetblue and AirTran (which is in negotiations but is stll ahead of Spirit in pay now). They don't want FedEx, Delta or even SWA wages. First they were told by management that they should be on par with JetBlue. Then they got a raise. So then they were told they should be on par with Aliegent. Then they got a raise. Then they were told they should be on par with the regionals. We fly an Airbus into the Andes and we should be paid $30 per hour for an FO and about $54 for a Captain? Go look at the rates on www.airlinepilotcentral.com Everyone makes more than Spirit pilots!

But the pay is just one issue. In order to get to that pay, the company wants to cut our longevity, thus giving everyone a paycut. And they want to create new rules so that, in order to advance, one would have to fly on their days off (which means they will be tired flying into the Andes).

The company stopped negotiating a few years ago, pulled every agreement off the table and slapped down Contract 9000 as a take it or leave it. From there they have refused to negotiate. it's that simple. Contract 9000 called for $30 million in concessions from the pilots.

The primary stumbling block is that the company refused to negotiate. On Thursday, they showed up in Washington, sat down and then promptly stood up and went back to their hotel. One can't negotiate with an empty chair.

Station managers have told us from early on that they were told that management expected more than 50% of the pilots to cross a picket line so the threat of a strike wasn't real (despite a 98% secret ballot authorization). That was a mistake. This is not Taca. This is ALPA.

Then the company thought that they should try to find contract carriers to fly struck work to break the union. Well, there isn't a lot of spare lift out there. On top of that, much of the pilots flying for them are furloughed United, American, etc. pilots. They are not flying struck work. Most refused. One accepted, flew two flights today and pulled out because the rest of the pilots called out sick.

So, the company has to either decide to throw away all the money the investors contributed and go out of business, or it has to sit down and negotiate in good faith. The option of busting the union won't work. Someone has to move beyond their ego and let it go for the good of the company. Time is short.

The pilots prepared for this for the past year and are resolved. We all saved our money and made plan B--some of out of the industry. The company's only plan was to bust the union.

We love our profession and work hard for our company. We want to continue to do so.

 

[The Janitor]

The pilots are not asking to be pay leaders. They are asking to be paid on par with their peers at Jetblue and AirTran (which is in negotiations but is stll ahead of Spirit in pay now). They don't want FedEx, Delta or even SWA wages. First they were told by management that they should be on par with JetBlue. Then they got a raise. So then they were told they should be on par with Aliegent. Then they got a raise. Then they were told they should be on par with the regionals. We fly an Airbus into the Andes and we should be paid $30 per hour for an FO and about $54 for a Captain? Go look at the rates on www.airlinepilotcentral.com Everyone makes more than Spirit pilots!

But the pay is just one issue. In order to get to that pay, the company wants to cut our longevity, thus giving everyone a paycut. And they want to create new rules so that, in order to advance, one would have to fly on their days off (which means they will be tired flying into the Andes).

The company stopped negotiating a few years ago, pulled every agreement off the table and slapped down Contract 9000 as a take it or leave it. From there they have refused to negotiate. it's that simple. Contract 9000 called for $30 million in concessions from the pilots.

The primary stumbling block is that the company refused to negotiate. On Thursday, they showed up in Washington, sat down and then promptly stood up and went back to their hotel. One can't negotiate with an empty chair.

Station managers have told us from early on that they were told that management expected more than 50% of the pilots to cross a picket line so the threat of a strike wasn't real (despite a 98% secret ballot authorization). That was a mistake. This is not Taca. This is ALPA.

Then the company thought that they should try to find contract carriers to fly struck work to break the union. Well, there isn't a lot of spare lift out there. On top of that, much of the pilots flying for them are furloughed United, American, etc. pilots. They are not flying struck work. Most refused. One accepted, flew two flights today and pulled out because the rest of the pilots called out sick.

So, the company has to either decide to throw away all the money the investors contributed and go out of business, or it has to sit down and negotiate in good faith. The option of busting the union won't work. Someone has to move beyond their ego and let it go for the good of the company. Time is short.

The pilots prepared for this for the past year and are resolved. We all saved our money and made plan B--some of out of the industry. The company's only plan was to bust the union.

We love our profession and work hard for our company. We want to continue to do so.

Shut'r down if she can't pay fairly. You guys are getting raped. This company is pissing away all the money from investors and is crushing public confidence in their business. I've seen your proposals and it looks like your company took a calculated risks of wanting to break the union instead of offering a fair wage. Your proposals have been very fair and IMO you weren't asking for as much as you should have been. Still, your company wants war.

 

[The Janitor]

Baldanza is scum.

It is high time for this profession to stand up and the Spirit pilots are the first. More will follow. It is far better to put these types of operations out of business than to continue to allow unrealistic air fares to continue on the backs of the employees.

If ALPA had any nuts at all they would call for a nationwide 3 day SOS to put the pressure on.

Good luck to the Spirit heroes. They are the front line in the battle.

The airlines have been taking on Labor since 9/11 as management has had it so nice. Someone has got to break the mold. Good luck. It can be done with solidarity.
It's only illegal because many unions agreed with the forerunners to the ATA at the meetings back in the 70's to have no-strike clauses and no-work action language in all modern day contracts. One never had to wait on cooling offs since the unions used to have language that would allow a airline worker the freedom NOT to cross a picket line. That language now is almost always restricted to only the airline the worker works for. Even then, the unions themselves not only cross the pickets but actually do the work, like when the IBT was accused of doing the AMFA work at NW.

Unfortunately, because of the ATA's pressure on the AFLCIO, many AFLCIO unions incorporated language that protects a company from almost any sort of job action, by contract, unless it gets to a cooling off.

 

[mrwoodcock]

I am a dispatcher at Spirit and I just got furloughed, they said we could be out for a while. If they follow our contract they have to give us 7 days to come back. No sure what I am going to do now. I am worried they may shut the place down!

 

[lostplanetairman]

I am a dispatcher at Spirit and I just got furloughed, they said we could be out for a while. If they follow our contract they have to give us 7 days to come back. No sure what I am going to do now. I am worried they may shut the place down!

I'm sorry. Please file for unemployment immediately. You can do it on line. If you need benefit or other information, please PM me. Your benefits should be covered till the end of June.

Rest assured, we will prevail.

Thank you.

 

[mrwoodcock]

I'm sorry. Please file for unemployment immediately. You can do it on line. If you need benefit or other information, please PM me. Your benefits should be covered till the end of June.

Rest assured, we will prevail.

Thank you.

Thanks I apprecitte your support Have you heard about the FA's I heard a rumor that they are getting their notices tommorow?

 

[lostplanetairman]

This is the company spin:

Spirit Airlines Update on ALPA Strike: Flights Cancelled Through Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - Yahoo! Finance



This is the company spin:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Spirit-Airlines-Update-on-bw-2984490760.html?x=0&.v=1

This is what the company actually sent:

http://p.p0.com/YesConnect/HtmlMessagePreview?a=0CRuq-sW3RqhyvmNqjRySxVj

Notice the "steps"? No one will ever meet them unless they fly their days off and give up their vacation. And the 200,000 after year five is based on 90 hours/month.

They are so out of options as they are now nearing the point at which it would have been cost neutral to give the pilots what they wanted in the first place. They had no plan.

It brings back memories of Wolf and Gangwal at US Airways that had no plan B for the company. Of course, Ben Baldanza was there then too. Maybe he learned this fine art of how not to run a business from them!

 

[mrwoodcock]

Well I can only hope it gets resolved soon otherwise there is going to be alot of people out of work - you feel so helpless in these situations. I hope our Pilot MEC has good plan to get them back to the table and get a deal.

 

[lostplanetairman]

Well I can only hope it gets resolved soon otherwise there is going to be alot of people out of work - you feel so helpless in these situations. I hope our Pilot MEC has good plan to get them back to the table and get a deal.

The MEC has been asking management to come to the table for nearly 4 years without success. Finally, management was ordered to come to the table on Friday. Negotiations didn't begin until late and not for real until 7:30 PM. It's hard to hammer out a contract in a few hours. Now the company has been notified by the MEC that the MEC stands ready (and is still in DC) to negotiate.

Where is Ben? Is he in DC still? Or is he busy putting out spin that the pilots turned down $200,000/year?

 

[mrwoodcock]

The MEC has been asking management to come to the table for nearly 4 years without success. Finally, management was ordered to come to the table on Friday. Negotiations didn't begin until late and not for real until 7:30 PM. It's hard to hammer out a contract in a few hours. Now the company has been notified by the MEC that the MEC stands ready (and is still in DC) to negotiate.

Where is Ben? Is he in DC still? Or is he busy putting out spin that the pilots turned down $200,000/year?

He has been in Miramar

 

[cactusgirl]

You have my full support along with the rest of the PHX based US Airways pilot group. Anything we can do to help out here in Phoenix, let us know. We (former America West) know full well the evil that is Bill Franke. Anyone trying to jump on a flight, make sure the gate agent lets the captain know your up there....we'll get you where you need to go.

Stand Firm and stay resolved. You will prevail.