Southwest To Phl?

[funguy2]

One major problem with this line of thought, though. PHL does NOT have much available gate space, unless US really really pulls down ops. No new terminal construction is on the horizon, either, nor is there room for it. I wouldn't expect WN to make PHL like BWI anytime soon ... UNLESS US goes under, pulls out, etc.

I think US pulling out or going out of business is part of LUV's longf term PHL plan.

I think they moved in now to prevent other LCC's to gain a foothold (or larger foothold) in PHL while US is floudering. Furthermore, I think they moved into PHL to enhance US's financial problems. LUV, AAI, and JBLU are putting US in a world of hurt already, simply by focusing on former US stomping grounds in BOS area, NYC area, BWI, FLA, and all the north-south flow traffic (i.e. BUF-MCO is now served by LUV nonstop, and over BWI, AAI over ATL, and JBLU over JFK). I think this is just the next step in putting US out of business, IMHO.

As for congestion and ATC delays at PHL... I am sure that they will decrease significantly when/if US is out of business. While LUV will only have 4 gates, that means probably 40-50 flights a day, when fully utilized. I am sure they will be able to take advantage of other strategic gate opportunities as well to piecemeal a few additional gates together.

I think LUV is investing (i.e. spending $$, time, engergy) in PHL, with all of its problems today, for a brighter tomorrow, in which they believe US won't be part of the equation.

Thats just my opinion.

 

[Ch. 12]

I agree with funguy. WN can do with 4 gates what U would need 8-10 gates to achieve.

 

[firstamendment]

>>>>LUV's costs will go way up due to ATC, no ramp space, weather, unions, northern attitude, burning fuel at 5000ft and thirty mile finals, etc... Philly!<<<<

I remember the same sort of stuff being said when SWA started BWI, PVD, and MHT including the winter weather, etc. Didn't stop them.

Mike Boyd thinks this move to PHL is aimed more at Jetblue than USAiways:

"Industry consultant Michael Boyd said the move into Philadelphia likely was aimed at preventing rival JetBlue from gaining a foothold there.

"This was a strike directly to stop expansion by JetBlue," he said. "This was not a strike against US Airways. US Airways was just an innocent bystander." "

Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public. h34r:

 

[SWAFA30]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

 

[firstamendment]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

May I remind you that we onced ruled BWI. I think that says it all. Also, the post I wrote was in reference that we at US were your sacrificial lamb to stop Jetblue. The wording was insulting. My experience with US Airways is that they have a traditional way of letting you guys sneak in, get scared and then run. Remember the west coast? Remember the Florida Shuttle? Remember BWI? The other airlines know more how to fight back. We can only go on the dismal record of US and history shows we run and leave the jewels behind for you guys to take.

I wish we would fight back and our CEO "claims" he will. I have no faith in this happening.

 

[SWAFA30]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

May I remind you that we onced ruled BWI. I think that says it all. Also, the post I wrote was in reference that we at US were your sacrificial lamb to stop Jetblue. The wording was insulting. My experience with US Airways is that they have a traditional way of letting you guys sneak in, get scared and then run. Remember the west coast? Remember the Florida Shuttle? Remember BWI? The other airlines know more how to fight back. We can only go on the dismal record of US and history shows we run and leave the jewels behind for you guys to take.

I wish we would fight back and our CEO "claims" he will. I have no faith in this happening.

Assuming Herb and Co.'s ability to predict the future is accurate and JetBlue did/does have plans to enter the PHL market then this(the death of US as we know it) was going to happen anyway. We at WN will live in infamy as the ruthless, heartless, SOBs that pulled the trigger and turned thousands of US employees out into the streets because we just happened to get to PHL first? I've browsed the WN@PHL threads over on the US message boards and it ain't pretty over there. I'm just trying to figure out who everyone at US is angry with, WN, the Mgmt Team at US or both.

 

[firstamendment]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major  has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

May I remind you that we onced ruled BWI. I think that says it all. Also, the post I wrote was in reference that we at US were your sacrificial lamb to stop Jetblue. The wording was insulting. My experience with US Airways is that they have a traditional way of letting you guys sneak in, get scared and then run. Remember the west coast? Remember the Florida Shuttle? Remember BWI? The other airlines know more how to fight back. We can only go on the dismal record of US and history shows we run and leave the jewels behind for you guys to take.

I wish we would fight back and our CEO "claims" he will. I have no faith in this happening.

Assuming Herb and Co.'s ability to predict the future is accurate and JetBlue did/does have plans to enter the PHL market then this(the death of US as we know it) was going to happen anyway. We at WN will live in infamy as the ruthless, heartless, SOBs that pulled the trigger and turned thousands of US employees out into the streets because we just happened to get to PHL first? I've browsed the WN@PHL threads over on the US message boards and it ain't pretty over there. I'm just trying to figure out who everyone at US is angry with, WN, the Mgmt Team at US or both.

SWAFA30, I think people at US are just over it. I am definitely not angry at SWA. My God, they are a business and business is out to make money and yes, gain market share. To that, LUV has been brilliant. In business you either have good management or bad. You guys have been very fortunate and I hope your employees will always go about their way with much gratitude. If arrrogance becomes the collective thought, that will be your downfall.

For myself, I would just like alittle clear direction from US. Our management team had the audacity to tell us Friday that we shouldn't be fighting each other, but stick together. Well, the reality is that the employees are united....against the foolishness of management...and he can't stand that we have called him on his stuff. It is Dave Seigle who has decided to break or redefine our concessionary contracts before the ink is dried. Has Herb ever done that? Is he constantly blaming labor for everything? That, my friend, is the difference.

US Airways needs to decide if they are a LCC or a full service (whatever that is) carrier. This isn't to change the thread to any moral issue so please don't go there...but I feel like the woman dealing with a friend who is bisexual....which are you and can you be happy being both? In the meantime everyone is getting screwed.

So if we at US come across as angry, it is a way of venting anger instead of taking it out on the customers. I am proud of the job the workers at US have provided. Even analyse have come to the employees defense. We have such strong, dedicated employees who have seen adversity for 15 years. It's amazing the wonderful job we do. Can you imagine years of being told how horrible you are and how you are overpaid (which is a lie) and still be able to provide a smile and good attitude?

Will we survive? If history teaches us anything, I would have to say sadly no. Shrinking airlines in the past have traditionally faded away.

 

[Pacemaker]

Mike Boyd has a lot of interesting things to say but I think he's missed the boat on this one....SW has a habit of following US around the country evicting them as they go, first in CA, then BWI, much of the Florida market, and now here they are in PHL - to keep jetBlue at bay? I don't think so Mike. BDL, PVD, ALB, RDU are all currently served by SW and are among the last lucrative US routes and are ripe for cherry-picking. US long-haul routes as wll are in danger - aside from the mediocre $10 vive la france option can you really differentiate the quality and service between a US A320 and a SW 737?

 

[N628AU]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

This post says it all. Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion. If the 40 flights they hope to operate sometime down the road does US in, US never deserved to make it out of Chapter 11. This may be the best thing that ever happened to US, as it may lead to a complete overhaul of the fare structure, which would finally get revenues in line long term.

That being said, a lot of people say US ran from the West Coast because of Southwest, and that is not completely accurate. The big issue there was old line Allegheny mangement coming in and screwing up PSA, which was fine on their own. Southwest never really got into California until PSA and then USAir cut and ran. Remember, Terminal 1 in LAX was always the PSA terminal, and now Southwest is filling all those gates. They never would have been available had the West Coast been managed properly, and US had not cut and ran.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

"Oh thank you so much LUV employees. I will sleep so much better tonight knowing that my airline's future demise is a great sacrifice for the betterment of the flying public"


All this fuss over 14 flights with a max of 40 and 4 gates. How many departures does US have out of PHL? I think I read the number is around 384. At our max we would be operating just over 10% of the number of departures US has and people are acting like the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse have been released.

Everyone is acting like we have never served an airport where another major  has hubbed. We serve DTW right along with NW...they are still in business. We have a huge presence in PHX which is an HP stronghold yet they have not gone belly up. We have had a huge secondary airport presence in AA and UAs hometowns for years and yet we manage to peacefully co-exist with both carriers. Airtran has not destroyed DL in ATL. Frontier and UA seem to be getting along OK out in the mile high city.

Are you so unsure of your product that you truly think that 14 to 40 departures a day are going to push US over the edge.

US is a full service carrier. Simply in terms of frills and frills alone their product is superior. FF program, Code Share and Alliance partnerships, assigned seating, international route structure, premium cabin. Most importantly US is a known factor in PHL, SWA remains a relative unknown. So why all the panic?

Throw in the almost universal opinion that PHL is a delay prone ATC nightmare and US should have nothing to worry about.

If 14 to 40 flights a day can go up against all of those obstacles and the end result is US Airways demise...it ultimately had little to do with SWA, the die had been cast long before our little ol 737s appeared on the scene.

This post says it all. Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion. If the 40 flights they hope to operate sometime down the road does US in, US never deserved to make it out of Chapter 11. This may be the best thing that ever happened to US, as it may lead to a complete overhaul of the fare structure, which would finally get revenues in line long term.

That being said, a lot of people say US ran from the West Coast because of Southwest, and that is not completely accurate. The big issue there was old line Allegheny mangement coming in and screwing up PSA, which was fine on their own. Southwest never really got into California until PSA and then USAir cut and ran. Remember, Terminal 1 in LAX was always the PSA terminal, and now Southwest is filling all those gates. They never would have been available had the West Coast been managed properly, and US had not cut and ran.

Keep in mind...AA's purchase of "Air California"...then scaling back had an effect on that market too.

BY far U's purchase of PSA....then selling off what was PSA to make pay-roll was short-sighted. Basically U had more balls than brains when it came to the purchase of PSA and PI...thier lack of ability to intergrate all these elements in a productive manner only continues to proove my point.

 

[wnbubbleboy]

This philly thing about being the last nail in the coffin for Usair is overstated. Compare it to our operation in SLC where I think we are running around 42-45 flights a day. How much of a dent have we put in Delta's operation there. We should be able to co-exist but the prices are going to drop to our levels since we are setting the bar there for routes where we compete. Although flights Usair flys to where we don't compete I bet will stay the same as they are now.

 

[Cfm56]

Hot Flash - November 3, 2003 from Aviation Planning

Airports With Less Than A Million Passengers: You're Now Out.
Southwest & Philadelphia:
The New Low-Fare Service Environment

After almost ten years of being able to pretty much call its own shots up and down the East Coast, Southwest now has to look over its shoulder. JetBlue is now firmly in the game, and it's a factor that will change the way Southwest plans its operation in the months and years ahead.

Southwest's decision to enter Philadelphia signals a whole lot more than just another expansion city for the Dallas-based airline. Up until now, they had no significant, well-focused, and large-scale low-fare competition in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. As a result, Southwest had the luxury of being able to pick and choose new markets as it saw fit. Not any more. For the first time, Southwest has meaningful direct competition that it must address.

Southwest is facing what may be its biggest challenge since Braniff and Texas International tried to freeze it out of Texas in the mid-1970s. Back then, Southwest faced outright collusion from two dinosaur airlines. Today, Southwest now faces a competitor that can - and fully intends to - successfully dive into the core East Coast traffic base which has been pretty much Southwest's exclusive playground for nearly a decade. And it's just beginning. Increasingly, consumers are going to have a choice. Not just between mega carriers and Southwest, but between competing low-fare airlines. Specifically, between Southwest and jetBlue.

The PHL move is clear proof that the jetBlue challenge not been lost on the folks down at Love Field HDQ. Some of the usual lightweight analysts will spout that it's an attack on US Airways. Forget it, US is just a bystander caught in what will become an increasingly nasty firefight between WN and jetBlue.

Remember, Southwest didn't get where it is by relying on a Ouija board. Too many analysts have misread the well-publicized and well-humored antics of the airline's chairman, and mistake that to mean that Southwest is just a big, fun flying furball with low fares. It's a whole lot more than that. Southwest is a tough, well-run airline with management that knows the business. Especially the low-fare airline business.

And that means they do not take the jetBlue threat lightly.

Entry of jetBlue = New WN Strategies. It's clear now that jetBlue will be a long term player. More ominously, it's not a low-fare airline. Instead, it's a low-fare airline with excellence in service - which is the formula on which WN built its business. Like Southwest, jetBlue is an airline that focuses on brand loyalty, not just dirt-cheap fares, to build its future.

Let's look at what Southwest is probably considering in regard to jetBlue:

Big time jetBlue expansion is inevitable. Southwest knows that jetBlue has over 200 airplanes on order. A lot of iron that will need to go someplace. Southwest knows that jetBlue will need to fly these machines in markets other than just JFK. And this will inevitably put jetBlue in direct competition for many of the traffic flows that Southwest now dominates. East Coast. West Coast. And in between, too.


Core-city airport service. The entry of jetBlue into Boston Logan was not insignificant to Southwest. It directly threatens much of the traffic base that Southwest enjoys at at MHT and PVD. Some of the reverse leakage driving out of Boston to fly WN is fixin' to get re-reversed back to Logan, which previously had no large-scale viable competition to Southwest. And although it really isn't a New York City airport, the same is likely happening at Islip. Cost-focused consumers in eastern Nassau and in western Suffolk Counties didn't have significant low-fare options from LGA or JFK. Now they do, and dodging potholes on the Long Island Expressway toward JFK becomes much more attractive. This isn't to say that Southwest will enter more core-city airports in the Northeast, only that jetBlue has the potential to dig into WN's existing traffic base.


Service quality. It bears repeating - jetBlue does not have passengers. More correctly, it has built a cult of travelers rabidly loyal to the airline. Not much different than what Southwest has done, but jetBlue has raised the stakes, with things WN doesn't have - in-flight television, wider seats (that's the A-320 factor), legroom, and yes, seat assignment. This is where Southwest is vulnerable. It's understandable that WN is reticent to adjust its successful service formula, but this time they really do need to take a hard look at comparative on-board service levels.
This time, it's for real - jetBlue is serious competition. This is not the United Shuttle. This is not Continental Lite. This is not MetroJet. It can be argued that the consumer may well begin to compare what he gets at each airline. At Southwest, he needs to be at the ticket counter way early to assure a boarding priority that minimizes the chances of ending up with a middle seat between two people from a culture that has not yet discovered soap. At jetBlue, the consumer doesn't have that anxiety. He has a seat assignment. In a wider seat. With a free TV to divert his attention, middle seat or not.

With jetBlue in the picture, for the first time Southwest is in danger of having the perception of offering less for the dollar than the competition.

Planning flexibility. Another dangerous competitive sign coming from jetBlue is that carrier's recent attempt to enter the Atlanta market from California. Apparently, it failed. And that's what's been missed by a lot of analysts. When it failed, jetBlue simply left. No chest-beating. No public recriminations. They just took their A-320s and went someplace else to fly another day. Two messages here, both indicating a very tough competitor: Little emotion, and the flexibility to move quickly when things don't work out.


Fleet flexibility. The addition of Embraer E-190s will be a major competitive advantage for jetBlue. Despite the comments from some ill-informed media types, these are not "regional" jets, but instead mainline airliners - think of 737-500s with better economics. For those of us who have actually been on the Embraer 170 prototype, it's very clear that the -190 is a 100-seat mainline jet that will put jetBlue in a position to enter markets and adjust capacity with extreme flexibility.
Bottom line: jetBlue is now the standard to which low-fare airlines must aspire. Including Southwest, even as good as they are.

On The Whole, They Gotta Be In Philadelphia. And that brings us back to Philadelphia (as terrifying as that sounds, at least for those of us who've had to live there.) Southwest knew that it had to make a pre-emptive strike at PHL - to snarf up gates, establish turf, and attempt to deny jetBlue a beach head there. A sound competitive move, but one that could signal a range of shifts in the future expansion strategies at Southwest. The airline can be expected to move quickly over the next 18-months to shore up its position in key Eastern markets. Probably the most apparent moves will involve connecting the dots between existing airports on the WN route system. Watch for accelerated moves into transcon and semi-transcon markets.

Big-Time Loser: Wild Turkey Sales. What not to expect is a rash of new cities on their route system. They know jetBlue is eventually going to be all over them, and they will be circling the wagons accordingly. Forays into risky new cities is not in the cards. Any airport that doesn't have a million enplanements and the potential of generating or capturing another 300,000 to 400,000 passengers can now commence singing the blues: The odds of getting Southwest service are neck and neck with a meteor strike.

So smaller airports should face realities. Southwest is out of reach. They aren't coming. Regardless. And, by all means, small airports had best forego sending Southwest any more of those cutesy-pie marketing promotions that center around Wild Turkey bourbon. The long-suffering and good natured folks at Southwest have seen virtually every form of trying to use Mr. Kelleher's choice in adult beverages as a marketing tool. Frankly, that stopped being "innovative" about a decade ago. If you're a small to mid-size airport, save yourself the money and the brain damage. That promotional bottle you were going to send to Southwest, so cleverly disguised inside a stuffed turkey holding a picture of your airport in its mouth, is a lost cause. We'd suggest you drink the stuff instead.

Adjusting To The New Kid(s) On The Block. For almost a decade, Southwest has had pretty much free reign. Now it has an emerging, major competitor in the form of jetBlue. For Southwest, it means adjusting and responding to competition that wasn't there before. And responding to new competition often demands changing the way one does business.

It's evolve or die. By the time the dust settles on this match-up, both airlines are likely to look a whole lot different than they do today.

 

[Clr2lnd]

I am a Cpt for a regional airline (not wholly owned) that flies 50 seat RJ's presently. There is a major shift by the major airlines for their short and MEDIUM haul markets (500 to 1500 nm). I am not talking about 50 seaters. In the very near future (Embraer EMB 70 seaters are available right now and EMB 90 seaters will be available 3rd qtr 2005, 70 and 90 seat Bombardier RJ’s are rolling off the assembly line today.) Regional airlines with regional pay scales and costs will be flying head to head with the low cost carriers. These low cost carriers (Southwest, Jetblue, Airtran) have operating costs which are giving the majors a serious problem that they really can't compete with flying their fleets as we know them today. However if you put a 90/70 seat jet online with regional pilots, flight attendants, rampers, gate agents, mechanics, management, no pension, less benifits, and an airplane that is more efficent) all of which make 30-40% less than the so called low cost carriers pay scales it spells B scale, no I should say C scale the major airlines and set the pay scales back 30 years. A brilliant move on their part, all using regional jets, (yeah right) since when is a 90 seat jet which can go anywhere in the US that a 737 or Airbus 320 can, a regional jet. It’s to late. The regionals have already accepted pay scales for these aircraft that are barely above the rates of the 50 seaters they are now flying. And in the case of MESA they have agreed to fly them for the same cost for a period of time (not sure how long) and then negotiate pay rates later. These 70 and 90 seat jets will provide a level of comfort and that is not presently seen in the regionals today. The American flying public will love them. Trust me, I hear the comment from my cabin as the passengers enplane on a daily basis “these tiny jets (50 seaters) are awfulâ€￾, the flying public will have their cake and eat it too. Availability, speed, comfort and LOW COST. Jetblue would not order 100 EMB190’s if that weren’t the case. The medium haul domestic flying in the US is about to take on a whole different look in the next decade. This is going to be very interesting.

 

[Clr2lnd]

Found this on the Boeing website,


Every year, Boeing publishes its latest assessment of the demand for world air travel. This assessment estimates the jet airplane capacity to meet the projected growth in travel demand, plus the replacement market for older in-service airplanes. This document may be referred to as the Boeing world outlook for the future of commercial airplanes.

Boeing recently announced plans to introduce a new, efficient intermediate-size airplane. At the time of Current Market Outlook 2003 publication, the final configuration of this airplane is not yet fully defined. Although an explicit forecast for the new airplane is not included in this Outlook, the underlying analysis clearly demonstrates strong middle-of-the-market demand. Customers continue to request frequent, nonstop service to their ultimate destinations. A new, more efficient airplane will help airlines to profitably meet this passenger demand.

Think Boeing doesen't see the writing on the wall? Intermediate size equals regional jet. Boeing wants some of the pie.

 

[ClueByFour]

Think Boeing doesen't see the writing on the wall? Intermediate size equals regional jet. Boeing wants some of the pie.

If they had pushed the 717, they could have had a chunk of the pie.