Southwest In The Boston Area

[KCFlyer]

Blah Blah Blah....SW still doesnt fly to the "major" airports BOS, LGA, ORD..believe it or not many MANY prefer to fly out of these major airports..and when I HAVE A CHOICE its JETBLUE!! Sorry Southwest just doesnt cut it..for LOTS of US!!!! No ill will to SW, they just dont cut the mustard!

[post="265253"][/post]​

Maybe not flyiing out of "major" airports accounts for their profit? Something must. But what about folks wanting to fly from those major cities to other major cities in "flyover country" for Jet Blue? I am sure that Southwest doesn't cut if for LOTS of you - but it cuts it enough for others to allow them to operate at a profit. Enjoy your JetBlue service to Cleve...umm...Nash....nah that ain't right....Kansa...shoot...St. Lou....crap....well enjoy your flights.

 

[swflyer]

      Blah Blah Blah....SW still doesnt fly to the "major" airports BOS, LGA, ORD..believe it or not many MANY prefer to fly out of these major airports..and when I HAVE A CHOICE its JETBLUE!! Sorry Southwest just doesnt cut it..for LOTS of US!!!! No ill will to SW, they just dont cut the mustard!

[post="265253"][/post]​

Haven't you been paying any attention??? <_<
SWA did indeed "cut the mustard"
The planes are Canyon Blue now.

Blah, Blah, Blah yourself. SWA is serving two of the three airports you mentioned with the ATA codeshare, have 60% of MDW (the newer, nicer Chicago facility), and plenty of other "major" airports nationwide, ie: LAX, LAS, PHX.

Since when is Long Beach a "major" airport??
(Not a dig at jetBlue, only the poster)

 

[AirplaneFan]

March Passenger traffic (total for all airlines combined):
BOS: +6.3%
PVD: +10.67%

Although WN's LFs appear to be slipping here (PVD) a bit, the overall mass of people using PVD is growing faster than those using BOS.

[post="265248"][/post]​

MHT is up 11.4% in March and 8.6% for the year. I can not believe the MISinformation that is on this board. I have no knocks on JBLU. However, they only fly to about 20 cities, SW flies to 60 cities (70 now with the codeshare with ATA).

BOS traffic is STILL a mess. I just got back from Boston and I was stuck on Storrow Drive for 45 minutes at midnight. The traffic is backed up for miles in morning and evening rush hour. The Big Dig tunnels are leaking water. On top of that Boston proper only has 10% of the population that are in the metro area. Many of the people in the metro area are closer to MHT and PVD. And the parking is significantly cheaper.

I think it is beyond bizarre that anti SW posters, who for years were claiming that the majors were going to be the demise of SW, now claim that mighty JetBlue will beat SW. Again, I like JetBlue but I think that they are competition for the "major 6" and not SW.

 

[ngneer]

Sorry Southwest just doesnt cut it..for LOTS of US!!!!

[post="265253"][/post]​

Southwest readliy admits that they're not for everyone and they don't try to be, so you're not stating anything new or controversial. What Southwest does try to do is provide safe, basic, on-time transportation at an affordable price and make a profit while doing it. They have been remarkably successful with their formula as they now carry more passengers domestically than anyone else and are consistently profitable. Personally, I like SWA's service and will use them whenever I can. I just used them last week to fly to Maryland on business. If you and lots of others don't like SWA that's fine. It's no big deal. SWA will continue to grow and prosper without you.

 

[luvn737s]

Why don't they admit that they don't fly to some major airports? I've seen their billboards about flying to DC- They Don't! Why is Providence portrayed as "Boston Area"? Oakland should not be confused with San Francisco. Why the deception? Why the Lies?

I thought this airline was built on going the extra mile (at least in Burbank).

 

[KCFlyer]

Why don't they admit that they don't fly to some major airports? I've seen their billboards about flying to DC- They Don't! Why is Providence portrayed as "Boston Area"? Oakland should not be confused with San Francisco. Why the deception? Why the Lies?

I thought this airline was built on going the extra mile (at least in Burbank).

[post="265476"][/post]​

I suppose if you live somewhere like Kansas City, where the airport is about as far from my home as Boston is from Providence...heck - even in Dallas, DFW (or Love) is about as far from someones home as it is between Boston and Providence - or in the LA area, where people live 90 miles from their job so that they can afford a home - that PVD most certainly CAN be considered the "Boston Area". Why shouldn't Oakland be confused with San Francisco? I flew MCI-OAK on Southwest while a coworker (who just wouldn't consider SWA) opted to fly AA into SFO (with a stop in Dallas). I was having lunch at the hotel in downtown San Francisco about 4 hours before she got there, even though our flights left at the same time. But...and I suppose this is important - she DID land in San Fran.

 

[jimmyd]

Airplanefan,

I would not call it MISinformation. How about spinning the data to fit your arguement, just like I'm about to do. I will agree on a percentage basis that MHT and PVD are growing faster than BOS for the YTD March period. However, on an absolute basis BOS gained 356,000 passengers, PVD ganed 104,000, while MHT gained 75,000 passengers - Logan is looking pretty good to me.

PVD and MHT have succeeded by capturing passengers from Logan's natural service area. My contention is that there is a gradual shift occuring back to Logan. I live in the western BOS suburbs in the 495 area. PVD is a little closer for me, but since the Ted Williams tunnel opened, I have not used PVD since. The drive straight into Logan on the Pike is so much better these days. Have you driven through Providence during rush hour recently, with the construction going on, it can also be a "mess". MHT likes to market itself as having cheap parking, but I would argue the cost of parking is way down on the list of reasons to choose a particular airport.

Southwest stated during the recent conference call to discuss their 1st qtr results that they were seeing "pressure" in the Manchester-Providence-Boston market. If they are under pressure now, when jetBlue operates only 18 daily flights from BOS, what's going to happen in a few years when jetBlue operates from 11 gates and has appproximately 100 daily depts.

I still contend that Southwest needs to seriously examine serving Logan and if and/or when they do, we would finally get to see jetBlue and Southwest competing directly with each other.

 

[TheDog2004]

And another way to break it down - of the new traffic in the chowderhead area, almost 2/3rds of it was in Boston.

So while MHT and PVD grew at a faster rate, Boston still had the majority of the traffic growth. What will matter is if Boston's share of the traffic growth continues to be 66% or greater. If it drops significantly (and I am not talking about 1 or 2 points but 5 or more) year over year then the argument could be made that MHT and PVD are continuing to 'steal' traffic. However, until then it appears BOS is still the airport of choice for Chowderheads.

 

[ngneer]

Why don't they admit that they don't fly to some major airports? I've seen their billboards about flying to DC- They Don't! Why is Providence portrayed as "Boston Area"? Oakland should not be confused with San Francisco. Why the deception? Why the Lies?

I thought this airline was built on going the extra mile (at least in Burbank).

[post="265476"][/post]​

I don't know much about SWA's advertising; here on Long Island they hardly ever advertise. But it seems to me that if you fly into an airport called Baltimore-Washington International, you're entitled to say that you serve Washington (and Baltimore).

It's marketing. SWA is reminding people that, if their destination is somewhere in the region around Boston, it may be worthwhile to fly into PVD or MHT and save money, time or both. Same thing with Oakland. Since it's just across the bay from San Francisco, it's an option that's worth at least considering.

 

[whlinder]

WN might not cut the mustard, but they certainly bring home the bacon.

 

[markkus757]

You must also remember that BOS is 4-5 times the size of PVD and 5-6 time larger than MHT, even before the growth in passenger counts. BOS is and always will be the "airport of choice for chowdaheads." The market has changed in that people who geographically "should" be using BOS are no longer going to need to drive to PVD or MHT (like jimmyd) to get low fares and preferable air service. WN and B6 are both growing the market more so than "stealing" passengers from each airport's cachement areas. The point in the numbers is that since people don't have to go out of thier way to find lower fares, that PVD and MHT's rate of "stealing" passengers from BOS would have slipped, when in fact both those airport's numbers are way up. There is no mass exodus of passengers, just more passengers for everyone. B6 is simply leveling the field by providing service to the BOS market via BOS. Another positive is that MHT and PVD lack west coast nonstops, so right now many PVD/MHT cachement area passengers are going out of thier way to fly out of BOS. When/if WN offers PVD/MHT long-hauls, those passengers will stop driving to BOS and the PVD/MHT numbers will gain yet again.

 

[jimmyd]

markkus,

Good points. Does anyone know why Southwest has been slow to add long-hauls out of MHT and PVD. I know the MHT-LAS (1 daily) and the PVD-PHX 2 (daily)flights operate with strong load factors, but as far as I know, that's it for the long-hauls. I know that WN is focused on PHL and MDW and as a result, expansion aircraft are scarce, but is their some other reason that I'm missing?

 

[markkus757]

The runway length at PVD was an issue prior to winglets and engine thrust upgrades on WN's 37s and gate space for overnight aircraft are an issue at both PVD and MHT. Neither is an absolute deal breaker concerning providing even limited west coast service at either airport. I think WN is hesitant to launch that long of service with thier current product. Sure many folks would use the service, but it seems WN has been bending their own rules a little lately and might be in store for some changes before entering the long haul market head first. I'd venture to guess assigned seating and power-ports (in the 737-700s at least at first) for self-brought IFE could be in the forseeable future...

 

[AirplaneFan]

Okay let's look at the last 5 3rd quarters at BOS , MHT and PVD. 2001 has been deleted for obviious reasons. Starting with 1999 has the advantage of SW being in MHT and PVD for a year so the initial surge in passengers has been compensated.

This is from the US DOT that many of us have been citing. The US DOT only counts O&D passenger traffic in the continental U.S. Below is a breakdown of marketshare between the 3 Boston area airports.

1999 2000 2002 2003 2004
BOS 69.8% 68.6% 65.8% 64.5% 67.0%
MHT 10.8% 11.8% 13.2% 14.8% 13.9%
PVD 19.4% 19.6% 21.0% 20.7% 19.1%

Ttl Daily Psg 68,755 71,895 61,322 62,060 72,743

So looking at the numbers over a 5-year arc, it would appear that BOS has lost 3 points, MHT has added 3 points and PVD has maintained marketshare. I think the BIGGEST changes over the next five years will be the completion of the Big Dig in Boston and the completion of the bridge over the Merrimack River that will connect MHT to the highway system. The first is well documented (and its impact overstated), but the second is going to have a major impact. No longer will passengers in the south have to loop around MHT from the north and go thru 4 or 5 series of lights to get to MHT. When the bridge is completed it will take 15 minutes of commuting time for MA commuters and be assured taht they will not have to stop at any red light in the state of NH.

 

[WNjetdoc]

Why don't they admit that they don't fly to some major airports? I've seen their billboards about flying to DC- They Don't! Why is Providence portrayed as "Boston Area"? Oakland should not be confused with San Francisco. Why the deception? Why the Lies?

I thought this airline was built on going the extra mile (at least in Burbank).

[post="265476"][/post]​

Dang son, seeing how you work for Usair then you should be used to lies, and I mean some serious lies. Perhaps you should concentrate on how to make Usair a better airline and leave where we fly to us, :blink: , LOL.