Southwest gets ready for end of Write Amendment

[eolesen]

There you go again putting words into other peoples mouths once again. Never have I ever said I was scared of comp from Delta, matter fact I would encourage it. All I said was it would be stupid for Delta to advertise and sell tickets on something that they quite possibly may not have.

 
 

you don't have to say it.... "you" is Southwest Airlines, Inc.

You continue to believe that WN will get those gates... THAT is not happening.

That's a pretty far stretch, WT, even for you.

In the weeks of debate over this, I've never seen anyone claim that WN would get the gates. They've said they could make better use of them, but that's a far cry from expecting to actually get them.

Yet, at the same time, you continue to beat the drum that DL will get the gates, and be the only company who could make the best use of them.

If you're going to call someone out for holding onto a wildass assumption, you'd better take a long look in a mirror...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't say that DL is the ONLY company that could get them. If other LCCs were interested, there would be some competition for them but they aren't willing to challenge WN in an airport which WN will control as strongly as they do.

With all of this discussion, there is no assurance that UA will use its gates anywhere enough to justify their use. Airports don't allow any tenant to just squat on property. The only reason why UA has been able to use its gates as little as it has at Love Field is because there isn't enough demand. That will change next October. Every gate will be used to the full extent possible.

If there aren't enough carriers to use the gates to their full extent, then WN most certainly should get whatever is left. I just don't see that happening though. In a competition for gates, WN will be the last airline that is awarded gates simply because there are significant anti-competitive concerns for awarding any more gates to a carrier that already controls 80% of the gates at that airport, regardless of their size in any other airport.

Further, WN's overall size in the US is a strong reason why it shouldn't get anymore gates other than in airports where it is small and the chances of it getting gates thru normal market forces is limited.

I would still bet that WN will walk away with at least half and maybe a lot more slots at DCA.

 

[WNMECH]

I didn't say that DL is the ONLY company that could get them. If other LCCs were interested, there would be some competition for them but they aren't willing to challenge WN in an airport which WN will control as strongly as they do.

With all of this discussion, there is no assurance that UA will use its gates anywhere enough to justify their use. Airports don't allow any tenant to just squat on property. The only reason why UA has been able to use its gates as little as it has at Love Field is because there isn't enough demand. That will change next October. Every gate will be used to the full extent possible.

It doesn't look like Delta is putting many seats on these flights.

You call that using Love gates to the full extent possible?

Not one of these aircraft carry the numbers of SWA 737 aircraft.
Most are less than half.

The largest are 6 flights using 117 seat Boeing 717s.

I guess Delta is not so confident they can fill seats against WN.


Deltas October 2014 schedule now has six nonstop flights to Atlanta, flown by Delta; three to Detroit, all on regional carrier Endeavor Air, which Delta owns; three nonstops to Minneapolis-St. Paul on Endeavor Air; five nonstops to New York LaGuardia on partner Shuttle America; and five nonstops to Los Angeles on partner Compass Airlines.

The Delta flights to Atlanta are scheduled to use the Boeing 717 jets that Delta is getting from Southwest. Southwest picked them up in its merger with AirTran Airways, then decided the 117-seat aircraft didnt fit into its plans.

 

[robbedagain]

Or may be dl is not as confident in obtaining the 2 gates

 

[WorldTraveler]

yet DL carries the majority of the local demand from DFW to its largest hubs and does it with a mix of mainline and large RJs.... DL clearly doesn't need to win the local market by throwing hundreds more seats in the market than necessary.

Apparently RJs aren't such a problem even a slot controlled airports because the DOJ actually ORDERED AA to continue to operate many flights using RJs.

Perhaps the DOJ and DOT both understand that RJs allow the legacy carriers to expand their networks and compete in markets which carriers like WN wouldn't serve. You need only look at the 18 cities which WN has dropped since the FL merger to realize that the 737 only strategy a dozen times per day doesn't really work to expand networks to cities around the world.

Argue about large RJs all you want... they are part of the US airline system and it is the legacy carriers who have figured out how to deploy them successfully and use the increased complexity of their fleets to produce higher revenues than the LCCs like WN have with mainline only fleets.

 

[WNMECH]

Perhaps the DOJ and DOT both understand that RJs allow the legacy carriers to expand their networks and compete in markets which carriers like WN wouldn't serve. You need only look at the 18 cities which WN has dropped since the FL merger to realize that the 737 only strategy a dozen times per day doesn't really work to expand networks to cities around the world.
.

 Yeah right. Spin away as you always do. Read again.
These are not small markets that WN wouldn't serve.
 
Deltas October 2014 schedule now has six nonstop flights to Atlanta, flown by Delta; three to Detroit, all on regional carrier Endeavor Air, which Delta owns; three nonstops to Minneapolis-St. Paul on Endeavor Air; five nonstops to New York LaGuardia on partner Shuttle America; and five nonstops to Los Angeles on partner Compass Airlines.
 
This shows that Delta clearly can't compete with SWA from Love Field.
 
SWA will fly the same number of passengers or more from only one gate, than Delta is scheduling using up two gates from Love.
 
That means that WN will be using gates 100% more efficiently than Delta and Dallas may not want to waste limited resource gates on them.
I am sure that will be part of WNs argument to try and get the AA gates.

 

[robbedagain]

Wn I agree with you most of those dl flights are on express planes but ive never heard of the govt ordering any airline to serve any city with rjs before

 

[WorldTraveler]

since WN hasn't announced ANY schedules, we have no idea what they MIGHT serve.

it also doesn't change that RJs are part of the national transportation system and the government has not given preference to mainline aircraft at slot controlled airports over RJs. In fact, the opposite is true.

so you spin away and check out the AA-US settlement agreement. It specifically says that new AA must serve small cities using RJs using the slots that are specifically reserved for RJs and not large aircraft.

Doesn't matter that WN will have its record high 80% of the gates at DAL and not one more and if there is competing expression for other carriers to gain access to DAL, it will come out of LUV's supply. That is the way federal laws are written.

Of course the option is for WN to pay the entire bill for operating DAL and no longer accept federal funding for the airport and then WN can be free from federal laws.

 

[WNMECH]

Doesn't matter that WN will have its record high 80% of the gates at DAL and not one more and if there is competing expression for other carriers to gain access to DAL, it will come out of LUV's supply. That is the way federal laws are written.

Of course the option is for WN to pay the entire bill for operating DAL and no longer accept federal funding for the airport and then WN can be free from federal laws.

Wrong again.

You really should read the links I have provided on this subject in the past.

The federal law that controls Love Field is called the Wrght Amendment Reform Act of 2006.
Gate use will be determined by the city of Dallas as outlined in the Scarce Resourse Provision section of the Love Field Competition Plan.

The city will determine if gates are being used to there full potential before awarding gates.

Delta has shown now how they will use gate space.
WN will show the city of Dallas their plans for extra gates. Wn can put double the number of seats on the same routes as Delta is planning from those two gates.

You can spout federal law all you want, Love Field has an anti trust exemption passed as part of the Wright Amendment Reform Act.

You think Delta has it in the bag.
Not yet they don't.

Also Delta scheduling flights out of those gates now actually helps SWA's case. Delta has shown they are not serious about using those gates to the same potential that SWA can.

 

[Kev3188]

Dunno if it directly helps WN's case, but it certainly doesn't hurt it. 
 
This showing of one's hand by DL (not to mention all the posturing in public) may indeed backfire. 

 

[FWAAA]

yet DL carries the majority of the local demand from DFW to its largest hubs and does it with a mix of mainline and large RJs.... DL clearly doesn't need to win the local market by throwing hundreds more seats in the market than necessary.

Not according to the DOT in the second quarter of 2013.   Majority of the local demand?    A majority is more than half, and there is not a single DL hub where Delta accomplishes that feat.   Not to ATL, not to DTW, not to MSP, not to LGA, not to LAX, not to SLC, not to SEA, not to CVG and not to MEM. 
 
Delta is the largest carrier between DFW and ATL with 43%, but that's not a "majority."   DTW?   40%, again not a majority.   SLC?   43%.   
 
As I've said before, a little fact-checking goes a long way.

 

[eolesen]

With the exception of SEA, there's not even meaningful competition from a third airline in those routes, nor would I expect any of those to be huge "let's connect over DEN/HOU/ORD/PHX" opportunity.

Cue some new and improved disclaimer claiming that 43% is indeed a majority in 3.... 2.... 1........

 

[WorldTraveler]

FWAAA,
you are correct that majority is an incorrect term. DL is the largest airline in the local DFW market to its primary hubs.

WNMech,
The FAA recognizes large RJs as acceptable aircraft for use of slots and gates. It is not up to Love Field as a federal airport to make rules which favor large RJs when the FAA does not.

Texas doesn't get to set its own rules.

It still doesn't change that WN already holds 80% of the gates at DAL. They aren't getting 90% for the simple reason that even 80% is uncompetitive.

WN will not get any gates at the expense of DL.

DL has enough support in Congress to ensure that WN won't get any more than what it is already getting from the AA/US settlement process.

 

[robbedagain]

But just bec delta has "congressional support" doesnt necessarily mean that the 2 gates will go to delta at dal. The airport or city will decide where the 2 gates will go the doj will take care of dca in the dca case id think that b6 wn and may be a few others will get the slots

 

[WorldTraveler]

You and others seem to think that the DOJ is immune to any political influence if it comes from someone other than WN or B6.

Au contraire

Still doesnt change that DL has the DAL gates because no one else is willing to take on WN and that giving more gates to WN makes a mockery out of what they asked from AA/US who would love to have a redo and give up a whole lot less at about 10 airports.