Southwest Airlines wants American Airlines’ two gates at Love Field

[WNMECH]

that's all great but AA obviously controlled the gates at the time of the settlement agreement. Since the settlement agreement is subject to a 60 day comment period, AA could get in hot water if it terminated its leases.

What AA planned to do and whether they WOULD have renewed the lease for DL is immaterial... the settlement agreement required them to terminate.

I still think that E's theory is probably most accurate... the gates will be returned to DAL and carriers will be free to use them.

And the WN fan club that thinks they have an ironclad right to use 80% of the gates might be in for a surprise if there is significant demand for gates that goes well beyond the 4 gates that are supposed to be available for everyone besides WN.

And the notion that other carriers are supposed to go to another airport because WN chose to stay at DAL and thinks they can now dominate it is truly laughable.

I'm sure that when DAL loses federal funding because there is no means to accommodate new entrants, then WN might decide it is worth sharing its toys instead of having to pay for the airport without federal funds.

SWA didn't make the rules at Love Field. They are just making the best of them.

You sound more worried than ever that Delta may not get those gates.

 

[WorldTraveler]

funny you want to argue about fighting words now that someone else is using them but WN has used that strategy for years. WN's existence from the beginning was about fighting for the right to stay when and where other carriers didn't want them to be.

The simple fact is that other carriers are now effectively using WN's own strategies and doing it very well.

Now, WN is not a disadvantaged carrier, either on a national scale or at DAL. WN's fares and costs are not significantly lower than the rest of the industry. WN has cut 18 cities since the FL merger so they don't have the moral capital to argue they are doing anything differently than any other carrier.

Specific to DAL, the chances are very,very low that DL will be forced out of DAL so that WN can acquire more gates. Chances that rank right up there with a heatwave in Dallas today.

 

[WNMECH]

Now, WN is not a disadvantaged carrier, either on a national scale or at DAL. WN's fares and costs are not significantly lower than the rest of the industry. WN has cut 18 cities since the FL merger so they don't have the moral capital to argue they are doing anything differently than any other carrier.

You haven't been keeping up with current events bro.
You need to sell that to the DOJ, not me. They are handing out the slots.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am very aware of the process that is going on... you are the one that seems to want to push the notion that WN is a disadvantaged carrier and so should be entitled to slots at DCA and LGA and more gates at DAL, to the exclusion of DL.

I am also aware that DL is very politically active in pushing its agenda which in this case is contrary to WN's.

We can argue the point or wait until it is resolved - which I still say will involve DL operating from DAL and may very well involve LFCs not getting the full amount of slots at DCA or of additional slots being created to provide service to small/medium sized cities that even AA/US have acknowledged will lose service.

 

[WNMECH]

I am very aware of the process that is going on... you are the one that seems to want to push the notion that WN is a disadvantaged carrier and so should be entitled to slots at DCA and LGA and more gates at DAL, to the exclusion of DL.

Wrong.

Show me one place where I claimed anything like that.

My argument is simple and is the same as the one used by the DOJ.
If WN gets the slots, fares will come down.
I have said WN is a powerhouse that will shape the market and that is good for consumers.
WN is being offered slots because they won't overcharge people for tickets like Delta and it just chaps your a$$ that the DOJ knows it and prefers WN.

 

[WorldTraveler]

except that WN's fares aren't lower. You and WN can say it but data shows otherwise.

Don't worry, though. There are backroom deals being done that WN isn't being invited to that will ensure that America isn't harmed by WN's marketing machine which is disconnected from reality.

 

[WNMECH]

except that WN's fares aren't lower. You and WN can say it but data shows otherwise.

Don't worry, though. There are backroom deals being done that WN isn't being invited to that will ensure that America isn't harmed by WN's marketing machine which is disconnected from reality.

Now that is funny.
AA is becoming the worlds largest airline and they need to be protected from us.

Plus you have proven over and over that Delta charges a premium over WN on their tickets, not to mention the bag fees and fuel surcharges and other things that cost the consumer but don't show up as straight up fare prices.
You must be smarter than that, everyone else knows it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

who said the comparison is to DL? You're fixated at trying to keep DL out of DAL.

Don't worry. the fire department won't spray you when DL starts 717 service from DAL.

The reason why DL will be flying from DAL is because there is no court in the US or Congressman that will support WN's acquisition of gates at DAL from a competitor. Doesn't matter what the other competitor charges.

 

[WNMECH]

who said the comparison is to DL? You're fixated at trying to keep DL out of DAL.

Don't worry. the fire department won't spray you when DL starts 717 service from DAL.

The reason why DL will be flying from DAL is because there is no court in the US or Congressman that will support WN's acquisition of gates at DAL from a competitor. Doesn't matter what the other competitor charges.

The comparison is to all the legacies. YOU are fixated with Delta and have provided that info on them. So now you don't like it when I use your own data against your arguments?

Without a court case or legislation proposed, the courts and congressmen won't be deciding it.
SWA and JB played their cards in the open by filing court briefs, you will need back room deals and lobbyists to get your ideas through.

 

[robbedagain]

how do you know it will be a 717?  for all we know dl may use the emb 175

 

[WorldTraveler]

here is the statement:

Plus you have proven over and over that Delta charges a premium over WN on their tickets, not to mention the bag fees and fuel surcharges and other things that cost the consumer but don't show up as straight up fare prices.
You must be smarter than that, everyone else knows it.

wnmech made the comparison to DL.

BTW, the DOT has extensive disclosure requirements regarding fees, which incidentally WN also charges. DL and WN comply with those rules or at least haven't faced massive fines because of failing to properly inform passengers.

The 717 will be used for purely symbolic purposes, robbed. Purely symbolic.

 

[WNMECH]

here is the statement:


wnmech made the comparison to DL.

BTW, the DOT has extensive disclosure requirements regarding fees, which incidentally WN also charges. DL and WN comply with those rules or at least haven't faced massive fines because of failing to properly inform passengers.

The 717 will be used for purely symbolic purposes, robbed. Purely symbolic.

This part is comparing to all the legacies.

My argument is simple and is the same as the one used by the DOJ.
If WN gets the slots, fares will come down.
I have said WN is a powerhouse that will shape the market and that is good for consumers.

This part is just for you and Delta.

WN is being offered slots because they won't overcharge people for tickets like Delta and it just chaps your a$$ that the DOJ knows it and prefers WN.

And you can claim WN fares are not lower all you want because it is the "all in" charges that count to the person paying, not just the listed fare.

Maybe you aren't smart enough to know that after all.

 

[robbedagain]

on that fares thingy...  ive looked ahead to may  and i did a lit comparison on air fares btwn bwi and mco...   dl is not exactly the cheapest in town   

 

[eolesen]

Does DL lease those gates from AA on a long-term lease?

It's a short term deal, automatically renewable. I forget the specifics, but it was something like 180 days notice, which is typical for an airport.

 

If you lease property on a short-term lease, it doesn't matter why your landlord disposes of the property - your new landlord doesn't have an obligation to renew your lease.   That's the inherent danger in leasing property on a short-term basis.

Airports also tend to now place more restrictions on how long a sublease agreement can be put in place, and hold right of refusal on subleases. Several airports got burned in the Eastern bankruptcy, where the status of leases were held up for years in the courts, yet cash from sub-lessors kept flowing into the estate. With the shorter terms, the airport could refuse to approve the renewal of a sublease, stopping the cashflow and forcing the airline in bankruptcy to either give up the space, or settle the leases.

 

[WorldTraveler]

valid points, E. And I still think that what you said elsewhere is correct in that the gates revert to airport control in which case there would be a conflict of law if the DOJ tries to reallocate assets which the WA specifically establishes procedures.

Since the issue has barely received any press for weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if the issue has been resolved or else cannot be resolved until a certain period of time before Oct 2014 when airlines have to notify DAL of their interest in gates.

Despite what others think, I don't think there are too many low cost carriers that want to take on WN at their home airport. Just like legacy carriers, LCCs prefer to operate out of their own strength areas and not "invade each others' bases."