Song

[KCFlyer]

[blockquote]
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On 2/12/2003 8:41:47 PM s80dude wrote:

So if a flight attendant goes to work for Song, do they lose their right to work for Delta mainline? What if after a year or two you want to go back? What about the retirement you have accrued at Delta mainline?
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[/blockquote]

details, details....

 

[DLstew]

So if a flight attendant goes to work for Song, do they lose their right to work for Delta mainline? What if after a year or two you want to go back? What about the retirement you have accrued at Delta mainline?



If you go to work for Song, you commit to 2 years, after that you may put in to come back to mainline, Prior to 5 years at Song, you must decide to either stay at Song for good, or come back to Mainline for good, retaining your original DL seniority.
Your retirement that you have accrued while at mainline is yours to keep, payable at your retirement age.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Better off calling it "Bong" what is DL smoking?

Ain't gonna work, gonna be another ContinentalLiteShuttlebyUnitedMetroJet money pit.

Said it before, say it again, an "airline within an airline" won't work.

 

[PLANES333]

I am a Delta employee and when I found out about "Song" I had the reaction you probably did. Me and hundreds of other Delta employees thought that this was going to turn out to be another sorry venture that 5 years down the road will go down in history as another failed attempt to operate an airline within an airline.
Before I started bashing "Song" I tried to think why this new venture might be successful and why it is different from the other airlines attempts to form low cost carriers.

1. Delta has had a low cost carrier before, through Delta Express. Although after September 11th this operation has been downsized, it was actually a success. Many people don’t realize the for just a few years short of a decade, DLX did what Delta wanted it to. It helped delta keep its market share in the Northeast-Florida market and increased its mainline yields by letting pax who wanted to fly to Florida by pass the ATL hub. Another thing that people don’t realize is the DLX actually made money for the company. Yes, towards the end it got a little long in the tooth, but Delta stopped trying to maintain DLX to what it wanted it to be and that’s why it started to cost the company money. The problem with DLX was that it was:

a) It used aircraft that were not will suited to serve that markets they were serving.
B) It was not advertised enough as a separate carrier.
c) Its ground and in-flight employees where high sonority Delta employees which made its costs higher than other low cost carriers.
"SONG" on the other hand will improve the problems the DLX experienced by operating larger more fuel efficient aircraft that have lower costs per seat mile. Employ delta employees who are willing to work more productively and eventually hire employees off the street for less. "SONG" will also undergo a major marketing campaign, to let customer know that it is not Delta and it is better than Jetblue (and believe me if dong offers what they say they are going to offer it will be better than jetblue)
Yes, Metrojet failed but so did US Airways. United Shuttle failed, but so did United. And Continental Lite failed, but take a look back and see what a horrible airline CO was when it operated COLITE. Delta Air Lines is, out of all the major trunk full service airlines that most successful. It carries the most passengers and although it is losing money it continues to have the most attractive balance sheet. I think it is safe to say that not all "airline with in and airline" ventures failed because Delta Express never failed, it is just evolving into something much, much better.

 

[audio-nut]

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On 2/19/2003 3:06:39 PM PLANES333 wrote:

and believe me if dong offers what they say they are going to offer it will be better than jetblue
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[/blockquote]

what are we talking about here? the email, or pay per view movies...do you know the average age of a NYC to FLA snowbird?

And they better be willing to offer great friendly service in the airplane because that is what is winning people over.

 

[JI Guy]

But PLEASE....get a new name!! Song? GRRRR!!!

 

[scot]

Posted: 2/23/2003 225 AM

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Total Posts: 14
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After taking a long look at the business plan for Delta's Song, I am not sure of it's soundness.

To answer the low fair airlines advantage of lower labor costs they plan on spreading their higher costs over a larger amount of seats. 757 vs 737/717/a321 but at the risk of flooding the markets with too many seats, they must reduce frequency right?

Thats ok for leasure travelers, but business flyers want and need the higher frequency of flights to have more flexible travel plans. If I were a business flyer, I would prefer 10 daily flights on smaller aircraft than 4 or 5 on a larger ones.

It just sounds like DL is just trying to flood the market with seats by calling it being competitive with the same product and then write off all the losses to the econonomy. While at the same time asking for big wage concessions from its employees.

I don't think this has a formula for success...Maybe it's not supposed to. Any thoughts?





717 2BD

 

[Diesel8]

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On 2/19/2003 3:06:39 PM PLANES333 wrote:

and believe me if dong offers what they say they are going to offer it will be better than jetblue
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Which means Song will be competing with mainline. Not sure if this is a good thing? Certainly, Delta will be diluting their own yield, which means bigger losses. How long such can be sustained is finite, then what? AA saw this trend in OAK and may be seeing it in LGB. Competing with yourself is not exactly a money making move, but perhaps Delta will be all Song, in which case there is, perhaps, money to be made.

Secondly, the IFE offerings are quite impressive, particularily since the system is not up and running yet. How soon will it be here is anyone guess! The jetBlue system is here and is quite easy to add features to, sure when the time comes, it will be quite competetive with Song.

 

[luv2fly]

Hot Flash - February 3, 2003

Delta's "Song"
Leading Lots of Folks In The Wrong Direction
Except, Maybe, Delta

Delta's Song: The exception that has nothing to do with the rule.

The cackle among much of the media today is that "legacy carriers" are dead, and the alleged hordes of low-fare, point-to-point carriers are taking over.

That thought process has given rise to United's alleged plan to start a "low cost carrier" within itself, the result being a dual identity airline with Jekyll & Hyde service products. Now that Delta's doing the Song deal, it's a near certainly that it will embolden the top folks at United and their Rasputin outside advisors to go full-throttle with their low-fare surrogate. And possibly down the tube, unfortunately.

Different Strokes For Different Airline Systems. We covered this before. (Go There) Song is just a hyper-thyroid version of Delta Express. And Delta Express was established to carry a demonstrable, and identifiable segment of Delta's existing traffic base - i.e., fare sensitive Florida traffic. It's like shifting the low fare coach seats to another airplane, running the traffic nonstop and thereby making better use of hub assets at ATL and CVG.

We'd point out again that Delta established Delta Express with little or no gurgling about "beating Southwest." It was designed to enhance Delta's traffic flows, not burn down Southwest headquarters in Dallas. And regardless of what the media attributes to this "new" Delta entity, its immediate and primary traffic is already in place. It doesn't need to "take on" or "fight" jetBlue or Southwest. In short, Song makes sense for Delta's existing traffic base. Unlike MetroJet or Continental Lite, it doesn't compete with its mainline.

Getting Past The Name. The only thing that everybody seems to agree on is the name. Song - it's weird. Reminds one of a Chinese dynasty. Or something on the showroom floor at the local Hyundai dealer. But it does fit in with other recently-established airlines - Tango, Buzz, Go, Jazz, and now Song. Put them together and it sounds like the music format of a very confused New Age radio station. What's the next new airline gonna be? Waltz? Disco? Lambada? Cotton-Eyed Joe?

Separating Markets, Not Confusing Them. Name identity aside, in a very real sense, Song/Delta Express represents a very old and very sound marketing idea - separate your consumer segments without confusing your customers. American did it in the 1950s with its "Royal Coachman" service. It wasn't anything "royal" but, boy, it sure was "coach" - they crammed 80 seats on some DC-6s and launched them on multi-stop late night transcons. The original National Airlines did it, too, with "nickel flights" - clapped-out Constellations flying in the wee hours with fares five cents higher than the bus to Florida. (Probably with the same ambiance, too.) The objective then was the same as Delta's today.

Pied-Pipering United. But much of the mainline media does not understand the fundamental differences between what Delta is doing, and what United is thinking about inflicting on itself. Delta has the route system and Florida market presence to make this separation of its existing markets work, United does not. United certainly does not have any material parts of its route system where point-to-point service can work on a large scale - as proven by the first 12 months of the United Shuttle. But it could be a real disaster if they attempt a hub-and-spoke system using two product identities.

Nevertheless, the Delta Song program will likely only encourage United to go ahead with its low-fare experiment. In a sense, that could make United, not jetBlue, Song's first competitive victim - without even directly competing with it.

Final Point: Song Could Be A Winner. Looking to the future of this entity, we first have to get past a blizzard of real sappy PR stuff, like this ditty, right off the Song website:

"Just as a song is the harmonious composition of distinct yet related elements, our Song will be in harmony with each individual's self-expression."

Oh, pluh-leez. It's an airline, not a 60's San Francisco love-in. At a $99 fare, what's to self-express, already? The customer wants a seat to West Palm, not psycho-analysis. So, the first suggestion: give second thoughts to the ad agency who dreams up this goo.

Now, the second suggestion: ignore the folks who're saying Song won't work. Given the way the carrier and its direction are structured, the concern expressed by some analysts might better be applied in the direction of jetBlue, which is a fine airline, but may be severely challenged by this Delta product.

Cutting through the obvious comments about how Song will have higher labor costs than jetBlue and Southwest, the fact is that the Florida market is ultimately finite, and the battlefield outcome will be determined by levels of brand loyalty. At risk of annoying the peanut gallery of rearview-mirror analysts who are cooing around low-fare start-ups like they once did around dot coms, here's a prediction: Song apparently has the management, the product, and the structure to more than compete. If it's done right, and if it's done with lights-out customer service (frills do no equate to good service, by the way - employees do) the entire low-fare Florida market could be in for a real competitive battle.

In short, the name doesn't matter. Song could get the fat lady singing for some of its competitors.

Low-cost airlines included.

© 2003 The Boyd Group/ASRC, Inc.