repeet
Veteran
Ahh yes. The famous, secret invisible anti-scope clause.
Some New Cba Thoughts
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Ahh yes. The famous, secret invisible anti-scope clause.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
Is anybody really surprised that he would write this? This guy is truly amazing ! I wish nothing but the best for all the other work groups and hope you can find away to shut this guy up once and for all! SavyPITbull said:
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
And that's it, in a nutshell.EyeInTheSky said:
I wonder what USA320Pilot would say if Dave went to Mesa to dermine what they could fly an Airbus 319/320/321 for, and then went to the U MEC and said "meet this, or we move it."
Ultimately, that would be an apples to apples comparison. I suspect I know what the answer would be, as well.
Perhaps the members of the IAM-M at US are not as interested in lowering the bar as the ALPA members seem to be.
cokeorsprite
Member
- Jan 22, 2004
- 54
- 3
i just hope i never get on a plane with this guy again. has anyone of his so-called predictions come true. someone should research it
TheLarkAscending
Veteran
Jim-BoeingBoy said:
I am so grateful that you are on this forum so that everyone can witness for themselves that all pilots do not fall into a certain category.
Thank you!
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #38
I find two points in this thread interesting: It appears it's o.k. for some posters to comment on other unions, e.g. ALPA for example, but it's not o.k. for their union to receive a third-party comment. I find that somewhat hypocritical in a public forum. Moreover, everything I have said in this topic is true, such as potential ALPA contract changes, the AFA "me too" clause, the Bureau of Labor statistics, and the potential elimination of the Pittsburgh airport facilites and hub.
It's called reality -- just like when the Company reached an agreement with the ACAA to keep the Pittsburgh Airport on-site facilities for three years with a one-year exit clause. Why do you think they did that?
Nobody, I mean nobody at US Airways likes the reality of the situation.
Here's the reality of the situation and by the way, I'm now fully prepared to deal with a surviving or failing company.
I believe we all recognize that our airline world as we know it has changed, and Dr. Bronner told ALPA just that last week, which he will replay on Thursday for the AFA. US Airways lost in the marketplace and then entered a formal reorganization, allowing the company to try again. The airline did, the company emerged from bankruptcy, and the world changed faster than anybody could imagine with the dramatic LCC growth, and thus today we find our self in a similar position to August 2003, unless management and labor make some dramatic changes to our airline.
If we collectively make those changes, Bronner told ALPA he would join us in growing this carrier and sharing with the employees the rewards of its success.
Do I believe him? Absolutely. Why? Because all 12 of the MEC members, Hardliners and Moderates alike, all support a resolution for the Negotiating Committee to begin discussions with the company on the "Going Forward Plan". All 12, not 10, not 9, not 8, all 12.
However, if on the other hand, management and the unions are incapable of negotiating the required changes necessary to be competitive, Bronner indicated he shut the company down, sell assets to the companies who made offers to Morgan Stanley, pay off the loan guarantee, and if necessary, write-off his US Airways investment. Bronner emphatically told the MEC he will not invest any more money in US Airways until it becomes crystal clear what direction the unions will take, he will "not default on the ATSB loan and he will not slowly bleed to death."
Is Bronner believable? In my view, the answer is an unqualified "Yes." Furthermore, the MEC believes Bronner can be trusted to do exactly what he tells you that he's going to do.
As one MEC member said, "And as a result of his (Bronner's) credibility, the MEC passed a Resolution that we send in our Negotiating Committee (NC) to begin full negotiations with the company over the role that we will play in the "Plan Going Forward." Most telling, that Resolution passed unanimously."
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
It's called reality -- just like when the Company reached an agreement with the ACAA to keep the Pittsburgh Airport on-site facilities for three years with a one-year exit clause. Why do you think they did that?
Nobody, I mean nobody at US Airways likes the reality of the situation.
Here's the reality of the situation and by the way, I'm now fully prepared to deal with a surviving or failing company.
I believe we all recognize that our airline world as we know it has changed, and Dr. Bronner told ALPA just that last week, which he will replay on Thursday for the AFA. US Airways lost in the marketplace and then entered a formal reorganization, allowing the company to try again. The airline did, the company emerged from bankruptcy, and the world changed faster than anybody could imagine with the dramatic LCC growth, and thus today we find our self in a similar position to August 2003, unless management and labor make some dramatic changes to our airline.
If we collectively make those changes, Bronner told ALPA he would join us in growing this carrier and sharing with the employees the rewards of its success.
Do I believe him? Absolutely. Why? Because all 12 of the MEC members, Hardliners and Moderates alike, all support a resolution for the Negotiating Committee to begin discussions with the company on the "Going Forward Plan". All 12, not 10, not 9, not 8, all 12.
However, if on the other hand, management and the unions are incapable of negotiating the required changes necessary to be competitive, Bronner indicated he shut the company down, sell assets to the companies who made offers to Morgan Stanley, pay off the loan guarantee, and if necessary, write-off his US Airways investment. Bronner emphatically told the MEC he will not invest any more money in US Airways until it becomes crystal clear what direction the unions will take, he will "not default on the ATSB loan and he will not slowly bleed to death."
Is Bronner believable? In my view, the answer is an unqualified "Yes." Furthermore, the MEC believes Bronner can be trusted to do exactly what he tells you that he's going to do.
As one MEC member said, "And as a result of his (Bronner's) credibility, the MEC passed a Resolution that we send in our Negotiating Committee (NC) to begin full negotiations with the company over the role that we will play in the "Plan Going Forward." Most telling, that Resolution passed unanimously."
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
I know it passed by the MEC, just like you asked all the other membership in the USAIR pilot group what they thought. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me 3 times shame on _________ (fill in the blank). I thought contracts were contracts....wrong again I guess.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #40
USA320Pilot,
This newfangled internet is a wonderful thing - the free interchange of ideas, beliefs, philosophies, and yes, even insults. Sometimes a little thicker skin is required, but that's a small price to pay.
As the saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I personally hope you can stand the heat and stay in the kitchen. Though we sometimes (often??) disagree, I enjoy having your thoughts included in this "melting pot" of ideas.
If I could just be so bold as to make a couple of suggestions, you might find life in the ether a little easier -
First, refrain from forecasting "punishment" for those that disagree with what you believe is in their best interest.
Second, refrain from dismissing those who disagree with you with a curt "You're wrong" or "Your analysis is flawed".
In both these areas, if you are confident in your beliefs then debate them. Treating others as children to be sent to their room achieves nothing but ill-will.
As you say without exception - and I believe you are sincere...
Respectfully,
Jim
This newfangled internet is a wonderful thing - the free interchange of ideas, beliefs, philosophies, and yes, even insults. Sometimes a little thicker skin is required, but that's a small price to pay.
As the saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". I personally hope you can stand the heat and stay in the kitchen. Though we sometimes (often??) disagree, I enjoy having your thoughts included in this "melting pot" of ideas.
If I could just be so bold as to make a couple of suggestions, you might find life in the ether a little easier -
First, refrain from forecasting "punishment" for those that disagree with what you believe is in their best interest.
Second, refrain from dismissing those who disagree with you with a curt "You're wrong" or "Your analysis is flawed".
In both these areas, if you are confident in your beliefs then debate them. Treating others as children to be sent to their room achieves nothing but ill-will.
As you say without exception - and I believe you are sincere...
Respectfully,
Jim
OP
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #41
BoeingBoy:
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
pitguy
Veteran
- Aug 21, 2002
- 1,509
- 0
USA320Pilot,
Since you are so kind to give us your insight into the IAM's contract here I wondered if you could give us the same level of expertise on this article which came out awhile ago regarding the 10 most overpaid jobs. I would like to know if these other carriers to which your salary is compared to are already inflated how does that affect you? I know the pilots here have already given more than everyone else, but from what I am reading that may be due to the fact that they were so overpaid to begin with and still have much more to give. It appears to the casual observer that facts gained from this article shows that possible you have only just begun to give and that possible other labor groups such as the Mechanics are already pretty much in line. All of your patience and wisdom is greatly appreciated in your response.
--Note to other Pilots. I may not agree with the article, but I am curious as to how USA320Pilot feels regarding this since he has so much input regarding other contracts.
====================================================
Article states the following:
Please click here to read the whole article.
""" 9) Major airline pilots
While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands. """
Since you are so kind to give us your insight into the IAM's contract here I wondered if you could give us the same level of expertise on this article which came out awhile ago regarding the 10 most overpaid jobs. I would like to know if these other carriers to which your salary is compared to are already inflated how does that affect you? I know the pilots here have already given more than everyone else, but from what I am reading that may be due to the fact that they were so overpaid to begin with and still have much more to give. It appears to the casual observer that facts gained from this article shows that possible you have only just begun to give and that possible other labor groups such as the Mechanics are already pretty much in line. All of your patience and wisdom is greatly appreciated in your response.
--Note to other Pilots. I may not agree with the article, but I am curious as to how USA320Pilot feels regarding this since he has so much input regarding other contracts.
====================================================
Article states the following:
Please click here to read the whole article.
""" 9) Major airline pilots
While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands. """
28yearsnojob
Advanced
- Jan 2, 2004
- 203
- 0
This stand is closedHere is a man of I would guess approaching 50 years of age, educated enough to fly an A/C, raise a family, take care of that family's welfare, in other words not a stupid person in the least. But does require this kind of advice and then accepts it, meaning he admittedly needed it. The advice given is what an early teenager knows. So my conclusion: This man is so stressed out he is no longer capable of logical thinking hence posting outlandish inflammatory remarks. I am glad we have back up in the cockpit. I am also glad that this job and the cost of losing it will not even come close to producing the effect on me personally as it apparently will on others posting here.BoeingBoy said:
