Some New Cba Thoughts

USA320Pilot

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May 18, 2003
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There seems to be no question that US Airways will continue to be restructured now that ALPA has agreed to assist the company in developing the “Going Forward Plan.†From the pilots perspective, the end result could be a contract similar in scope to JetBlue, which could also become the template for the Flight Attendants due to the “me too†clause. From this observers perch, it appears the flight crew could see hourly pay rate cuts, increased block hours from an 85 to 96 hour per month pay cap, work rule, benefit, and/or retirement changes.

According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, inspired by a visit from Chairman David Bronner on Friday, US Airways pilots agreed to cooperate with management to further restructure the airline to make it look more like low-cost, low-fare competitors who are eroding its market share and threatening its survival. The union authorized its negotiating committee to hire consultants to supplement its investment banker and in-house resources. "This is going to be a total makeover," ALPA spokesman Captain Jack Stephan said.

For the CWA and IAM-FSA represented employees, I believe there will be some additional changes not yet permitted by their contract, but much of their changes can be implemented with the MDA, Mainline/Express, and new city contractor agreements.

TWU employees will be expected to make further changes, however, at this point it’s uncertain what their role will be in the unfolding restructuring towards the LCC lifestyle.

In regard to the other union employees, that primarily leaves the IAM-M and IAM-U employee groups. It’s my understanding the company previously provided the mechanics a plan to cost effectively conduct A320 overhaul in-house, but the IAM rejected the proposal. From the company’s perspective, the problem appears to be that with current union work rules, it takes US Airways’ mechanics 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and 13 days for a contractor. Not only is the current in-house work dramatically more expensive than a contractor, the aircraft is removed from service and revenue generation for 5 additional days. Therefore, the current in-house heavy maintenance creates a compound problem in comparison to the LCC’s due to additional costs and lost revenue.

Nobody likes this situation and I believe US Airways has some of the best mechanics in the business. But, after reading reports from Bronner’s comments last week, it does appear the mechanics have a choice. Either agree to cost effectively conduct the overhaul in-house or seek work elsewhere, since there are reports the company can conduct the maintenance elsewhere (not Indianapolis).

Interestingly, the USA Today recently published an article titled “Auto dealers face mechanics shortfall,†which could provide US Airways’ mechanics another option. In the article, the newspaper reported there is a shortage of mechanics and on average a recent survey found that each dealer will need to hire an average of two mechanics within the next six months, up from one a year earlier.

Moreover, basic training to become an auto technician takes at least 54 weeks and costs about $18,000, says Tina Miller-Steinke, a spokesman for Universal Technical Institute, which trains auto, marine, and motorcycle technicians. She says 60% of students get tuition loans or grants.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics automobile technicians can expect to graduate and receive an average starting hourly rate of $16.87, provided the newly trained auto mechanic can find one of the four positions available per year at a local dealer.

For those mechanics thinking about other alternatives, the Bureau of Labor also said Painting/Coating technicians earn an average hourly rate of $11.67 per hour.

Thus, with thousands of Pittsburgh and Charlotte mechanics facing possible near-term unemployment (just like other employees if the company is not further restructured), which will result in the loss of their current income of about $24 per hour, overtime opportunities, benefits, and retirement, there does seem to be some other employment options. However, some observers argue it may be in the IAM’s best interest to cut a cost effective deal with the carrier to conduct in-house heavy maintenance so the IAM does not lose most of its US Airways members.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
 
Chip,

To clarify, the US Airways ALPA MEC has not agreed to participate in the GFP, only to pursue a fact-finding course of further investigation into whether in fact they will participate at some point.

In 6 more days the composition of the MEC will change significantly and in any case a deal must be ratified by the pilot membership.

IMO the jetBlue-type contract you theorize will only have a chance of passing if the pilots see confirmation that the entire airline, and not just the pilot contract, undergoes such a radical transformation.
 
Geezus Chip,

Don't you ever just think you ought to "shut up" for awhile and see what happens, instead of giving us your 10 Cent version.

As bold as I sit on these boards, I don't tell folks or other labor groups what they should give up or not give up. How is it that you still have the nerve to tell all the groups what they will have to give up OR "the ultimatum version".
 
USA320PILOT,

This post is not directed to you alone but to many others on this board who try and use the old "Dave" scare tactics. Many try to pound into the "nay sayers" heads that there are no jobs out there comparable to what they have now and they will never find another. They and their families will be living in poverty in boxes under a bridge in Pittsburgh until their dying day.

Well there are jobs out there and there are many smart business owners that are constantly looking for highly skilled dependable employees and willing to pay for them with benefits. We may have to do some pavement pounding and knock on some doors to let them know that we are out there but, if we are persistent that perfect job will come along.

Just an example of how the job situation is made to look bleak...you gave the example (for the mechanic's benefit) that in the "real world" an auto technician makes about $16.87 hr. if he can get one of the four open positions. That really sounds dismal. Well I was in the auto dealership business for about 15 years and still keep in close touch with many people in the business and the business has not changed much since I was there. You are right about the hourly rate. The average mechanic does make about that much and the higher line mechanics can make almost double that but what you failed to mention is that rate is per labor hour not actual hours on the job per day. All of the highly skilled mechanics that I worked with turned at least 16 labor hours a day and sometimes a lot more. So, if you do the math using the lower end of the pay scale it comes out to $269.00/day and $1349.60/wk. Most likely it will vary a little from season to season but for a butt busting money hungry highly skilled mechanic the posibility of making $60,000 a year is there if they want it bad enough. Plus, daylight shift, most have week-ends off and all holidays off and decent health benefits and 401k. Every dealership is constantly looking for a "crack" mechanic who is going to turn out work quickly and skillfully and that doesn't always mean by putting ads in the paper. The top mechanics are usually found by word of mouth and are literally stolen from other dealerships.

My point is there are top paying jobs out there to be had and I think as a whole US employees have a great reputation and none of us would have much of a problem finding one of them as long as we're determined. It is definately not as bad as some are making it out to be. There is a whole world out there just waiting for us.

Sermon over. Thank you!
 
Wow Chip....that's just wrong. Trying to scare them into submission are you? Seems from this "observers perch" that the only one really scared (and rightfully so) is the self proclaimed "messenger". I wonder what sort of job you could find that would pay you the kind of money you are making now...hmmmmmm...let me think NONE. Dang, that hurts.

but wait.......I hear Washington is always looking for another Bush Pilot. Intelligence isn't a prerequisite and rhetorical spin is the norm....they'd hire you I bet. Heck, just look at the clown leading them. :blink:
 

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USA320PILOT CLAIMS(AND IN MY OPINION NEEDS DRUG TESTED)It’s my understanding the company previously provided the mechanics a plan to cost effectively conduct A320 overhaul in-house, but the IAM rejected the proposal.
you are being fed boosheet on this my fine feathered friend.....if they offered this why are they rapped up in a court battle over breaking the contract?
the problem appears to be that with current union work rules, it takes US Airways’ mechanics 18 days to conduct a narrowbody overhaul and 13 days for a contractor.
how the hell can they you make this claim,when we haven't been given the chance to do the work in house?
Not only is the current in-house work dramatically more expensive than a contractor, the aircraft is removed from service and revenue generation for 5 additional days.
again how do you validate this as IAM does not accomplish this work in house??again you post accurate misinformation.... get a life my friend.
Interestingly, the USA Today recently published an article titled “Auto dealers face mechanics shortfall,â€￾ which could provide US Airways’ mechanics another option. Thus, with thousands of Pittsburgh and Charlotte mechanics facing possible near-term unemployment (just like other employees if the company is not further restructured), which will result in the loss of their current income of about $24 per hour, overtime opportunities, benefits, and retirement, there does seem to be some other employment options.
i have to thank you for your invaluable service in helping my friends seek employment out of the industry.you should be commended.
However, some observers argue it may be in the IAM’s best interest to cut a cost effective deal with the carrier to conduct in-house heavy maintenance so the IAM does not lose most of its US Airways members.

concession stand closed
ALPA has agreed to to the “me tooâ€￾ clause.According to the USA320Pilot , it appears the flight crew could see hourly pay rate cuts, increased block hours from an 85 to 96 hour per month pay cap, work rule, benefit, and/or retirement changes. According to USA320Pilot , inspired by a visit from Chairman David Bronner on Friday US Airways pilots agreed to some additional changes not yet permitted by their contract.According to USA320Pilot alpa will screw the mechanics to achieve their own end.According to USA320Pilot US Airways pilots agreed to USA320PILOT.
 
USA320Pilot
Thanks for looking out for me, BUDDY!
It sure appears to me you might be a little scared about all the other labor groups jumping on the ALPA bandwagon. If it doesn't work out that way maybe this will help!
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This one in Charlotte. No overnight travel
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USA320Pilot said:
From the pilots perspective, the end result could be a contract similar in scope to JetBlue, which could also become the template for the Flight Attendants due to the “me tooâ€￾ clause.
I feel this is truly pathetic. ALPA feels if they take it in the shorts then everyone else must follow their truly gutless and sorry path to willing destruction.

To make sure everyone follows their sorry and very pathetic path they put in the, “We Screw You Too Clauseâ€￾ just to make sure.

And then we have posters on here proudly posting this crap like it's something to celebrate!
 
:ph34r: Ur unbelievable Chip...U REALLY have no idea whats going to be negotiated between ALPA and the co. Furthermore, stop speaking for ever OTHER labor group. What an insult telling the mechanics what they should do and where they can go look for a job. GEE. maybe one of ur many underqualifed pilots can go work for Home Depot, since they all seem to have some level of expertise in EVERYTHING!!!. Always amazed at the audacity u have. PITBull is right on-"SHUT UP" for once and then things happen. Chip, u know less, im now convinced, than anybody esle on this board. Almost all of ur ridiculous predictions have NOT come true.
GIVE IT A REST!!!
 
Chip, that has to be one of the most audacious posts I’ve ever seen. Telling professional airline mechanics that they should consider a job at the local Jiffy Lube is just obscene. What’s next? Telling the flight attendants they should apply at Dennys? It’s kind of like telling a professional airline pilot flying a plane with 20 less seats than your Airbus that they are only going to make $58,000 a year. Oh yeah, you already did that.
 
NAPAUS said:
:ph34r: Ur unbelievable Chip...U REALLY have no idea whats going to be negotiated between ALPA and the co. Furthermore, stop speaking for ever OTHER labor group. What an insult telling the mechanics what they should do and where they can go look for a job. GEE. maybe one of ur many underqualifed pilots can go work for Home Depot, since they all seem to have some level of expertise in EVERYTHING!!!. Always amazed at the audacity u have. PITBull is right on-"SHUT UP" for once and then things happen. Chip, u know less, im now convinced, than anybody esle on this board. Almost all of ur ridiculous predictions have NOT come true.
GIVE IT A REST!!!
Sometimes I truly question the mental capabilities of some posters. Didn't Delta have a rocking chair test for pilots? If they did that today, it's clear somebody on this board would definitely be considered off their rocker. Gee, who could that be?
What blows my mind is the obscene amount of time spent on these boards posting this crap. Isn't there something better to do, like start a business and prepare for the worst? I mean, what's the point? Unless you have no life... there you go.
 
will the pilots have to vote on any changes that are negotiated?

what are the rules on that?
 
Give it up :angry:



Be gone, before somebody drops a house on you!
 

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