Sick Time

[700UW]

Bob, I Scotty Ford and Tom Buffenbarfger are worth that money.

On the other hand Dave Siegel has done nothing positive to earn his $4 million for 27,000 employees.

Tom Buffenbarger $193,000 for 635,000+ members
IAM wins hands down.

Plus the sick policy is not in our contract it is a company policy, so get there are no arcane rules.

 

[700UW]

The union cannot protect and get someone's job back if they have abused their sick time, I have seen it and represented people before, if the company follows their policy the person will be fired and stay fired.

It is not the union's job to get someone fired, that is the company's, I have sat in third step hearings when the grievant loses and the union does not take it to arbitration because the grievant has no case. But the union is obligated by DFR to at least take it to third step which could take one month to one year before it is heard.

 

[700UW]

Bob,

The company is the one who delays the process, there is no added cost to the company nor the union by the delay, the problem is there are only TWO labor relations people that hear the mechanic and related grievances when it is processed to third step. These very same two people also handle contract negotiations for all ground groups and grievances for the ground groups.

There are specific time limits in our contract, which the company fails to adhere too, the union lets it go cause all this would do is process everything into arbitration which is not cost effective for either party.

It seems the company just likes to drag its feet and keep the person out of work as long as possible, if the company knows they might lose they dangle the carrot of offering the employee their job back without back pay. So you have a 50/50 shot of winning your back if it goes to arbitration.

 

[pitguy]

Piney,

Before I would have any interest in straightening out 'their' problems. I would first want them to start doing things right. It is hard to fight the 'big giant'. They will fire you knowing they are wrong and let you stay out a year before getting back. They prolong matters more than the union. Perfect example is the airbus issue. The union help put the issue on fast track in the courts. THE ISSUES KILLING THIS COMPANY STEM FROM MANAGMENT. (END OF FREAKING STORY). They illegally harass people whom are on legitimate workman's compensation. Even after a judge has instructed them to pay the claim and medical bills they continue to do as they please and not pay it. (Don’t preach about take them to court. It is in court. Remember about fighting the big giant). They are a bunch of thieving heathens. Shut the doors. Man do I feel sick.


--The view in 3C is very limited and you see such a tiny piece of the pie. To not know that would be ignorant.

--There is no way this company can survive being ran the way it is. We need true leadership.

 

[cavalier]

Pineybob

I started this topic concerning SICK TIME and not union bashing. Bob, I am glad you feel so confident in your abilities that you require no unionization making it through life just fine. It seems lately all the woes facing this company are either directly or indirectly the consequence of U’s unions, according to your posts anyway. The simple fact is unions are indeed necessary because of a term called depravity making man flawed, hence employers will not treat everyone fairly or even equally given the same tasks assigned, or even humanly if unregulated. If there was no union we all would be working for China wages with zero benefits. Just look at the latest, HOOVER vacuum factory employees in Ohio losing their jobs over the plant moving to China. They paid those employees all of $13 an hour, which was too much they felt, so now they are moving to China, where they will pay 33 cents an hour instead. We all would be making 33 cents an hour if unions disappeared overnight. The corporations are not paying you because they are nice, they pay you to stay put and if one doesn't have an education then the union is the next best thing. I have held my peace with you Bob, but give it a break already. We all know your views ad nauseam on your feeling towards unions and their leaders. This topic has veered off course over your loathing union bashing rants. Coming on here and doing what you’re doing is like walking directly into a hornet’s nest naked and expecting to walk out without any welts. It ain’t going to happen. You are changing nobody’s mind; this is a unionized airline like it or not.

 

[pitguy]

And another thing…. These same moronic management people have no common sense in their leadership. One ‘everyday type’ example is certain Maintenance areas we have some shops and facilities that are not on the forefront of the operation. These colleagues work on the afternoon shift. They wanted to work on daylight shift for New Years Eve instead of working 2:45pm until 11:15pm. So instead of letting these workers off on New Years Eve they made them work until 11:15pm. It would be different if there were something pressing that needed done, but there was not and this affected numerous employees. Just another way of keeping the "great attitude" going strong. Another example is this same brainy management leadership telling people they must take their vacation in January or February. Even though there will be no reason why these workers could not take their vacation at a better time, such as when their kids are out of school. They have no common sense and are terrible with responsibility.


--Oh my I just threw up.

 

[700UW]

Well said Cavalier!

 

[700UW]

Bob,

What is the LP position on Striker Replacement (Scabs)?

 

[pitguy]

Piney,
Thanks for the information about the Libertarian Party. A long time ago a gentleman asked me if we are better to be a nation known to take care of the infirmed and elderly or should we be a nation that makes people wealthy. Whatever one would chose they should conclude that this country should work for the people and not just for a select few.

-- We have a mess here and Management needs to step up to the plate.

 

[cavalier]

Cav, Pitguy & 700UW,

Just so their is no further confusion I am pasting some copy from the Libertarian Party regarding organized labor

Sure I can address that Bob.


Then do it on both sides of the fence, meaning: Get rid of all the government interference on the company's end as well. Make it purely even. Trouble is it will never be even, never be a perfect world scenario and why we have what we have in place today. It’s far from perfect but it’s in place because we are still the same basic flawed human beings we were two and three generations ago. Obviously your political parties philosophy has not caught on to the point where it makes a difference and until it does your cries are heard as static.

 

[Bear96]

I would be very interested in your views on what is pasted below:

...

An employer should have the right to recognize, or refuse to recognize, a union as the collective bargaining agent of some, or all, of its employees.

Well there ya go.

Seems to me, under the Libertarian platform, employers would immediately exercist their right to refuse to recognize unions, and unions would be extinct in short order.

Is that really a good thing, Bob?

 

[Bear96]

Well since this kind of all specualtion you could also argue that the union would have the power to organize secondary strikes like say against US's caterer or fuel supplier. And to picket and organize boycotts and generally raise hell with the economy. which is a pretty strong lever. Would be interesting to be sure.

But what union? Who would man these picket lines? Assuming the LP platform was reflected in US labor law, the companies would just say, If you picket or protest you are fired with no recourse, since we no longer recognize unions, as is our legal right. They could also fire someone immediately for trying to organize. Other companies would soon follow suit. Thinking all the workers of the US economy would suddenly rise up and force employers to accept unions is, I'm afraid, these days a pipe dream, especially in some regions (i.e., the South).

The Libertarian Party has some interesting ideas, and I agree with much of their philosophy. But they are definitely not very friendly towards unions, and their platform pretty clearly states that. I am not saying that is a bad thing necessarily if that is what the Party's supporters want, since any organization has the right to stand for what it wants to. But let's at least call a spade a spade here. I don't see what it accomplishes trying to pretend that their platform is not hostile towards unions.

 

[700UW]

Workers in the Airlines are goverened under the National Mediation Board and the Railway Labor Act.

Not the National Labor Relations Board and the National Labor Relations Act.

 

[Fleazle]

The sick call issue is not that complex:

1) The company never had a handle on staffing issues during my 8 years. People were either sitting around by the hundreds wanting to fly or avoiding the phone like the plague when Scheduling would start calling unsuspecting block holders to assign them trips due to lack of Reserves.

2) It was just too easy to call in sick. One simple phone call and you were off the hook. No speaking to your supervisor, no having to sound sick etc..
Here in the non-airline world it is a little harder to manage the "mental health sick call" like I used to be able to do.

3) I know that UA used to pay some holiday premium pay; maybe that would make a few people think twice about burning a sick call.

4) I imagine that with morale so low right now a lot of F/As that would have thought twice about calling in sick before might have said to heck with it...why spend the holiday in Elmira or Huntington this year?

 

[stoopidute442]

The all time classic sick call....

Yes this is Joe, i have something in my eye and i can't see comming in today.