Sept. 1 Alpa Update - 10:00 P.m.

[USA320Pilot]

The ALPA Negotiating Committee and the company met today discussing valuations on agreed upon contract items. Talks between the parties have adjourned for the evening and negotiators will meet again tomorrow.

It's now expected the MEC will reconvene its special MEC meeting on Friday.

According to ALPA communications committee chairman Jack Stephan, "This next meeting could very well be the discussion of a Tentative Agreement or a final proposal, all pilots are urged to attend. If that indeed occurs, the MEC will then make the determination if this final proposal/agreement would be sent to the membership for ratification. The question still exists if a roll call vote would be utilized to keep the membership from voting on a final proposal, so pilots would be well served by attending this next meeting, or at the very least, contacting your Reps immediately and letting them know your feelings on these negotiations and your participation in this process."

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[mlt]

US A320 wrote:
The question still exists if a roll call vote would be utilized to keep the membership from voting on a final proposal.

More Spin.....If the PIT and PHL reps utilize the constitutionally allowed roll call, it will be to prevent an unacceptable agreement going out to the pilots. The purpose of the roll call would be to send the NC back into negotiating sessions, not to prevent the members from voting!

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mlt:

Time is running short for membership ratification before the bankruptcy filing, which ALPA's advisors are now predicting in "open session" will occur.

Here's the bottom line. There was a better deal for the pilot’s available weeks ago, according to every ALPA advisor.

Now the company's proposal gets worse every day and so does ALPA's response. Maybe that's what happens with an all "rookie" negotiating committee, with a furloughed pilot the only committee member who has been through any formal training, which occured just a few weeks ago.

The America West DC plan and contract would have been a better deal for many pilots. Any negotiator who has done this before can see that ALPA is now being forced to chase this deal at a dead sprint. The only question that remains is if we will be able to catch it before the bankruptcy court steamroller runs over the pilot group like some bad Wylie Coyote/Road Runner episode. The only upside to this drama is watching to see what the "sewers" will do. I have an idea but I better keep it to myself for now and just enjoy watching them squirm every day at the MEC meeting. I bet these illustrious leaders wish they had Tim Baker to still kick around.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[mlt]

US A320:Any negotiator who has done this before can see that ALPA is now being forced to chase this deal at a dead sprint.


And your experience is?

 

[savyinvestor]

USA320 you need to get on the O'Riley Factor and enter the "no spin zone" because you are making everyone dizzy with your spin on things. Savy PS Better get that MBA diploma dusted off!

 

[700UW]

DELETED BY MODERATOR

ff:

 

[ua767fo]

1) Here's the bottom line. There was a better deal for the pilot’s available weeks ago, according to every ALPA advisor.

2) Maybe that's what happens with an all "rookie" negotiating committee, with a furloughed pilot the only committee member

3) The America West DC plan and contract would have been a better deal for many pilots.

4) Any negotiator who has done this before can see that ALPA is now being forced to chase this deal at a dead sprint. The only question that remains is if we will be able to catch it before the bankruptcy court steamroller runs over the pilot group......

5) I have an idea but I better keep it to myself for now and just enjoy watching them squirm every day at the MEC meeting. I bet these illustrious leaders wish they had Tim Baker to still kick around.

6) Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="175003"][/post]​

1) So what, quit crying over spilled milk

2) Many of us for years have been sickened over ALPA's refusal to hire professional negotiators. This is true at all airlines, and is a huge mistake.

3) Perhaps it would have been. Then of course, the company wanted the ramp to go to SWA rules and pay several years ago. Today, thats the last thing they want. You can't compare apples (HP) to oranges(AAA)

4) Wrong. For 40 years, failing managements have always tried to impose artificial deadlines on labor, in effect to panic the group. This group always seems to fall for it, except for the IAM

5) Boy your a smug guy. If things are in such bad shape, share your ideas. Lead, or just move the heck out of the way.

6) Please, you respect no one but yourself

Glad to see 4 men who refuse to get steam rolled. The UAL MEC needs to look at these guys as an example of standing on principle.

Denver, CO

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Mlt:

Time is running short for membership ratification before the bankruptcy filing, which ALPA's advisors are now predicting in "open session" will occur.

Here's the bottom line. There was a better deal for the pilot’s available weeks ago, according to every ALPA advisor.

Now the company's proposal gets worse every day and so does ALPA's response. Maybe that's what happens with an all "rookie" negotiating committee, with a furloughed pilot the only committee member who has been through any formal training, which occured just a few weeks ago.

The America West DC plan and contract would have been a better deal for many pilots. Any negotiator who has done this before can see that ALPA is now being forced to chase this deal at a dead sprint. The only question that remains is if we will be able to catch it before the bankruptcy court steamroller runs over the pilot group like some bad Wylie Coyote/Road Runner episode. The only upside to this drama is watching to see what the "sewers" will do. I have an idea but I better keep it to myself for now and just enjoy watching them squirm every day at the MEC meeting. I bet these illustrious leaders wish they had Tim Baker to still kick around.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="175003"][/post]​

THis above is NOT true. The above poster is VERY afraid. The rest of us are holding the line against such hogwash. There are thousands of real U pilots out flying the line and not calling in sick to attend such meetings. The real U pilots have made their opinions WELL known to their reps, and ARE willing to TOW the line against personal attacks such as the above. Tim Baker was and IS a good man....but he was wrong. You should be happy to be in his company, but do not use his name to support your adgena. I know Tim Baker...and you sir are NO Tim Baker. Greeter. Also...lay it out, item for item how a "better deal" was passed on. Nope. NOT true. This is bad info being badly presented by an unreliable source.

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA code-a-phone update - September 1, 2004 #2

See Story

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[EyeInTheSky]

This little ditty stands out:

"...As the next meeting could very well be the discussion of a Tentative Agreement or a final proposal, all pilots are urged to attend. If that indeed occurs, the MEC will then make the determination if this final proposal/agreement would be sent to the membership for ratification.


The question still exists if a roll call vote would be utilized to keep the membership from voting on a final proposal, so pilots would be well served by attending this next meeting, or at the very least, contacting your Reps immediately and letting them know your feelings on these negotiations and your participation in this process....

The answer is NO. Full pay to the last day.

 

[USA320Pilot]

edited by moderator said: “Also...lay it out, item for item how a "better deal" was passed on. Nope. NOT true. This is bad info being badly presented by an unreliable source.â€

USA320Pilot comments: Management’s June 5 power point presentation said the America West contract, with Group 3 pay rates of about $134 per hour for Captain and $91 per hour for First Officer, for example. Every ALPA financial, economic, and legal advisor told the MEC in “open session†yesterday that the union could have had a deal 80 to 85% of the ask weeks ago. Furthermore, they predicted at previous MEC meetings that every day that went by the company would offer worse deals and the RC4/C4 disagreed with their view, but now that’s occurring.

I guess part of the RC4 “rookie†team who said their “gut feeling†was better than the advisors report, was wrong again. Now the pilot group is about to fair worse, but the “just say no†crowed is now offering pay cuts that make US Airways pilots lower paid than America West.

Furthermore, ALPA’s strategy has shifted to protecting pay rates because as they go down, the DC plan goes down even further than a DC Plan cut. What’s interesting is that the RC4/C4 were told this before by ALPA E&FA and thought they could save the DC Plan and now they’re changing their tune chasing a deal.

Is this bad faith bargaining by management? Absolutely, but when has any airline management not counducted bad faith bargaining. They always do but the crack "rookie" RC4/C4 and NC may not have know this, since most of them are brand new to the process.

It’s truly pitiful.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

This little ditty stands out:

"...As the next meeting could very well be the discussion of a Tentative Agreement or a final proposal, all pilots are urged to attend. If that indeed occurs, the MEC will then make the determination if this final proposal/agreement would be sent to the membership for ratification.
The question still exists if a roll call vote would be utilized to keep the membership from voting on a final proposal, so pilots would be well served by attending this next meeting, or at the very least, contacting your Reps immediately and letting them know your feelings on these negotiations and your participation in this process....

The answer is NO. Full pay to the last day.

[post="175081"][/post]​

So when "IS" the last day...next week, the week after?

All this drama and U will still go under, at least mainline.

I likes the rumor a friend told me. U and UAL are furloughing 6000 employees each and then merging That's a Laugh Out Loud Alright!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

USA320Pilot, did you just "out" someone? Yeah, I agree with you, pitiful. Full pay to the last day.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

said: “Also...lay it out, item for item how a "better deal" was passed on. Nope. NOT true. This is bad info being badly presented by an unreliable source.â€￾

USA320Pilot comments: Management’s June 5 power point presentation said the It’s truly pitiful.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="175085"][/post]​

[/quote]

Thanks for again quoting "management." We already know you have left the U pilot group in hopes of securing the VP job of Latrine Management. ALso, please moderater, since USA320 is now using actual names of posters, maybe HE could do a little Shoeless Joe Jackson action in the cornfield. How about it, are you guys consistant in using the rules..or does 320 not apply. Greeter.

 

[funguy2]

Is this bad faith bargaining by management? Absolutely, but when has any airline management not counducted bad faith bargaining. They always do but the crack "rookie" RC4/C4 and NC may not have know this, since most of them are brand new to the process.

Yes, they are brand-new to the process. I am sure US Airways just hired them last week. These folks may be new to negotiating, but I am sure they've been around the US Airways block for a while... After all, there are at least 1800 pilots less senior to them...