Rome Flight returns to PHL

[as the prop turns]

Just had a very dear friend of mine in my kitchen having coffee who was a f/a on that flight. When she was telling me what happened on that flight, she started crying her eyes out. She said the way a supervisor came onto that airplane announcing that the flight was cancelled and that THEY would have to call reservations to rebook their flight was appalling. Not only that, but it was the way he said it. Apparently, the mechanical was fixed quickly, but it was the crew that was running out of time, but barley. Most f/a wanted to continue on the trip, but it was the pilots who opted out. They COULD HAVE continued, but technically were not obligated to do so. Bottom line, they could not find new pilots to take the trip.

Also, with this piece of crap (and I am being nice here) computer system, it would have taken the agents DAYS to reroute those poor pax. If we had our "proper and global" computer system this debacle could have been rectified much more efficiently.

To add insult to injury, when the bags were off loaded, the pax had to go from A West over to C, yup you heard me right folks, C concourse to retrieve their bags!

GOTTA LUV IT!!!

 

[Itestwell]

Just had a very dear friend of mine in my kitchen having coffee who was a f/a on that flight. When she was telling me what happened on that flight, she started crying her eyes out. She said the way a supervisor came onto that airplane announcing that the flight was cancelled and that THEY would have to call reservations to rebook their flight was appalling. Not only that, but it was the way he said it. Apparently, the mechanical was fixed quickly, but it was the crew that was running out of time, but barley. Most f/a wanted to continue on the trip, but it was the pilots who opted out. They COULD HAVE continued, but technically were not obligated to do so. Bottom line, they could not find new pilots to take the trip.

Also, with this piece of crap (and I am being nice here) computer system, it would have taken the agents DAYS to reroute those poor pax. If we had our "proper and global" computer system this debacle could have been rectified much more efficiently.

To add insult to injury, when the bags were off loaded, the pax had to go from A West over to C, yup you heard me right folks, C concourse to retrieve their bags!

GOTTA LUV IT!!!

Couple of questions for your friend:

1. Why would she want to continue on when she did not have to? Doing a favor for the company? That is what reserves are for.

2. Why did they just not quick call a new FCO crew? The flight would have left ~2 hours later. No pilots? Sounds like a staffing issue maybe? Hmm...

3. Why did she start crying her eyes out? Because of the way the pax were treated? Tell her to do a few 737 trips in and out of PHL and LGA; that'll toughen her up a bit..

 

[LongTimeF/A]

Couple of questions for your friend:

1. Why would she want to continue on when she did not have to? Doing a favor for the company? That is what reserves are for.

2. Why did they just not quick call a new FCO crew? The flight would have left ~2 hours later. No pilots? Sounds like a staffing issue maybe? Hmm...

3. Why did she start crying her eyes out? Because of the way the pax were treated? Tell her to do a few 737 trips in and out of PHL and LGA; that'll toughen her up a bit..

couldn't have said it better!!

 

[as the prop turns]

She's a pretty tough bird, it was just the way this company treated those pax, many elderly American and Italian pax. She has a great deal of compassion for people and she felt helpless because of what they were going through, that's all

Oh, and yes, it was definitely a staffing problem.

 

[AP Tech]

Used to say that the cargo payed for the flight and that the persons onboard were pure profit.

Did hear that the problem was not that bad, could have continued on and been legal, but it was the Capt's decision. Actually fixed in a very short time. Nobody could make a decision on what to do!!! Crew ended up running out of time and when you run an operation on a shoestring, extra crews sitting around are hard to come by!!!

 

[Travelpro72]

Talk about a "bad call". Just worked a trip a few days ago and one leg, hell all of the flights were behind but this one was almost 2hours late and the announcement followed. "Ahhhh ladies and gentleman, we are experiencing some trouble with the folks who do our weight and balance. We will be here for a few while we get this worked out". Then we all hear "Well folks we're still waiting is the bad news, The good news is we'll get you to CLT some time today". Ummmm now thats great locked behind your door as we are staring at the passengers with the "deer in headlights" look. They were already boarded and told that they couldnt tell them if they'd make their connections or NOT. It turned out into a holy fiasco. Sure are many other troubles in the world but to be in that situation and NOBODY CARES. I wanted to pop the slide and run.

 

[tadjr]

She said the way a supervisor came onto that airplane announcing that the flight was cancelled and that THEY would have to call reservations to rebook their flight was appalling.

Well the flight showed about 270 onboard. How many agents were left in PHL at that time of night and how long would it have taken to rebook all 270 of them? Now what about poor person number 269 who has been waiting in line for 4 or 5 hours (if they were lucky) to be rebooked and to still be told its going to be 2 days before you get there? We were doomed either way on this one. Either wait in line for hours and complain about the wait or complain that the agents told you to go away and call from the comfort of your hotel room because they didnt want to help (or make people wait in line for hours)? It was a no win situation.

 

[UpAllNight]

Used to say that the cargo payed for the flight and that the persons onboard were pure profit.

Did hear that the problem was not that bad, could have continued on and been legal, but it was the Capt's decision. Actually fixed in a very short time. Nobody could make a decision on what to do!!! Crew ended up running out of time and when you run an operation on a shoestring, extra crews sitting around are hard to come by!!!

You are 100% correct, it was the Captain's call. I know because I was one of the mechanic's working that flight. One of the F/A's I was talking to said that they timed out at 10;30pm, but their dispacther told them that they didn't unitl 11:30 and the pilots were good until 1:30am. We recieved the A/C at around 10:45 and had the new part installed and check out at 11:00. The fuel truck had just pulled up and I was signing off the log book when some pax informed the flight crew that they were scared and wanted off the plane. So that was going to take them way past 11:30 and the F/A's would be out of time. Then we were informed that, who ever calls the new crews, weren't going to start calling until after midnight and they thought they could have a crew there by 12:30am. Then somebody made the call to change out the entire crew. Shortly after the flight was canceled.

Back to the scared passengers. While I was signing off the log book in the jet way, one of the pax who deplaned was standing in the jetway crying with her family (I think therewas about 8 of them) and I asked her if she was asked to get off the A/C. She said no, she was scared. Now i don't know who or what exactly she was told told, but this woman was scared to death of this A/C. I've heard that the Capt. made and announcment that he had lost his navagational system. This is not true. The part that we changed is called a DMC or Display Monitoring Cumputer. It run his display in the cockpit and there are 3 of them and he lost the #1 computer, which operates the displays on his side of the cockpit. He just has to switch to the #3 computer and everything works again and you continue about your business. There is however a re-set for the DMC, and they did that, and the number #1 DMC became active again. So IMOP they should have never told the passengers that they lost their NAV system. BTW even if you lose 2 of the 3 DMC both pilots can share one with limited displays.

This entire situation was a comedy of errors and mostly from the planning stages. There should have been a new crew in place to take over because they knew they were running out of time. Most of the blame has been placed on customer service and that not the case at all. The MEL book states that the A/c can't go ETOPS with the #1 DMC inop, BUT fi it's in the air and on it's way and the other systems are operational he is allowed to continue. But as I said before ultimatly, it's the Captains call. I believe a month again this flight would have made it to Rome, but the pilot group is flying "by the book"

 

[brown]

You are 100% correct, it was the Captain's call. I know because I was one of the mechanic's working that flight. One of the F/A's I was talking to said that they timed out at 10;30pm, but their dispacther told them that they didn't unitl 11:30 and the pilots were good until 1:30am. We recieved the A/C at around 10:45 and had the new part installed and check out at 11:00. The fuel truck had just pulled up and I was signing off the log book when some pax informed the flight crew that they were scared and wanted off the plane. So that was going to take them way past 11:30 and the F/A's would be out of time. Then we were informed that, who ever calls the new crews, weren't going to start calling until after midnight and they thought they could have a crew there by 12:30am. Then somebody made the call to change out the entire crew. Shortly after the flight was canceled.

Back to the scared passengers. While I was signing off the log book in the jet way, one of the pax who deplaned was standing in the jetway crying with her family (I think therewas about 8 of them) and I asked her if she was asked to get off the A/C. She said no, she was scared. Now i don't know who or what exactly she was told told, but this woman was scared to death of this A/C. I've heard that the Capt. made and announcment that he had lost his navagational system. This is not true. The part that we changed is called a DMC or Display Monitoring Cumputer. It run his display in the cockpit and there are 3 of them and he lost the #1 computer, which operates the displays on his side of the cockpit. He just has to switch to the #3 computer and everything works again and you continue about your business. There is however a re-set for the DMC, and they did that, and the number #1 DMC became active again. So IMOP they should have never told the passengers that they lost their NAV system. BTW even if you lose 2 of the 3 DMC both pilots can share one with limited displays.

This entire situation was a comedy of errors and mostly from the planning stages. There should have been a new crew in place to take over because they knew they were running out of time. Most of the blame has been placed on customer service and that not the case at all. The MEL book states that the A/c can't go ETOPS with the #1 DMC inop, BUT fi it's in the air and on it's way and the other systems are operational he is allowed to continue. But as I said before ultimatly, it's the Captains call. I believe a month again this flight would have made it to Rome, but the pilot group is flying "by the book"

Thanks for the info, I worked as a tech for USAirways for 15 years including 4 in Philly at A concourse. I am sure we know eachother...PM me please....

 

[PSA1979]

The flight attendants went illegal at 2330. If the door was not closed at that time, they had to call in a new crew. The pilot's didn't go illegal unil 0130. Even if the flight attendants wanted to go on, they could not. Being illegal is like being pregnant, you can't be just a little bit of either.

 

[dariencc]

The MEL book states that the A/c can't go ETOPS with the #1 DMC inop, BUT fi it's in the air and on it's way and the other systems are operational he is allowed to continue.

Not true. The MEL requiremments for navigational systems on ETOPS flights are not related in this case to being "in the air and on it's way." They are contingent upon whether or not the aircraft has entered NAT track system airspace. In this case, the aircraft had not. Therefore, it was not authorized to commence North Atlantic operations with this malfunction.

Nothing optional about it. The Captain made the right call.

 

[AP Tech]

The Captain made the right call.

In other words the Capt went "by the book",in good times the crew would have continued on to Rome where the problem would have been addressed. Maybe things like this will start to get Tempe's attention. Lots of pissed off employee's working for this company right now, no matter what Tempe thinks!!!

It was rather embarassing watching the news at 11 and seeing the passengers holding up a the sheets of paper with the number of where to call to rebook their flight! So much for customer service. I'm sure if that would have been the flt Parker was on a week before things would have been handled a bit different.....

 

[dariencc]

In other words the Capt went "by the book",in good times the crew would have continued on to Rome where the problem would have been addressed.

You don't get it. North Atlantic ops are not like PHL-GSO, and the crews don't treat it that way. During five years of TA flying I never even heard of a crew blowing off a critical equipment failure as you suggest would be normal.

What happened on the 3rd would happen anytime and everytime.

 

[AP Tech]

Yea right!!!!

 

[dariencc]

Yea right!!!!

Yes, I am right. You are pretending to know something that you clueless about. A sign of a true bozo.