RJ''s

[ONTHESTREET]

Just goes to prove that you can't please everybody. The ML boys get blasted for not getting the W/O's a flow thru........and then they get blasted for wanting to get the W/O's a flow thru! Got reamed a while back because no Jets were going to the W/O's.....now getting reamed because they are going to the W/O's with J4J! Got reamed because J4J required that the Jets fly with 50% furloughees.......then got reamed because all the jets so far have gone to the contract carriers even though the W/O's voted in the J4J!

ALPA threatened to sanction any pilot that went to Freedom, so nobody applied........Now a member of the MEC is working at Freedom (So I am told by a Freedom Pilot), he applied before ALPA removed the sanction threat (Insider trading?) and the list goes on and on!!!!!!!!!!

Spoke with a good friend today...another evil furloughed Mainline Pilot (Apparantly going straight to hell to hear the Commuter boys tell it) and we had a great laugh over the whole situation!!!!! WE ARE ALL TAKING A RIDE IN THE SAME BOAT.....and nobody ML, W/O, MESA, or Freedom have any control over it.

The best part is we have been on furlough for a year or more now.....yet somehow what happened last week over at Mesa, PSA, Allegheny, Piedmont, Freedom etc, etc, is ALL OUR FAULT

As a matter of fact I had a W/O guy getting mad at me a while back for some scope item that was ratified at ML while I was still a W/O Captain!!!! Geez...if I had known I had that much power as a lowly W/O guy I would have put my self at the top of ML sen list!!![img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif']

The point of all this is you guys can rant and rave about the evil ML guy but the truth is except for a few very senior pilots,(The MEC, in closed session) NONE of us had any control over it!

And the truth of it is you guys that enjoy chewing our butt so much were only an interview and class date away from being part of the evil empire!! (they sent us to a special Dark Side training center the first day to make us turn on all other pilots) Its like the movie.....If they had called, you would have come. And dont even give me the crap that "No I would have continued to fly my Dash, and would have ignored the chance to go to ML and make a lot more money"

And then you would be just like every other pilot in the country....Just trying to save your job....yet somehow everything would be your fault. Now see how lucky you were to not be called for that interview![img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/12.gif']



Hmmm seems I am guilty of thread creep....Sorry bout that!!! [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif']

Signed,

Darth Vaders Apprentice

 

[chipmunn]

deleted by author

 

[Capecod]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/6/2003 8:32:23 PM ONTHESTREET wrote:

You know, I was just catching up on the ALPA boards, scrolling thru all the guys in training out in PHX for Mesa,they were all talking about hotel this, transportation that, lack of ground school quality, unorganized scheduling of training etc......and it dawned on me that these guys are scabbing their own jobs!!!!!!!! THEY are the ones who are taking THEIR jobs!

Judging by what they are saying the whole CRJ 700/900 training structure is a mess, and the CRJ 50 class is not much better. I spoke with one who just finished, and is waiting on I.O.E. and he told me that for the most part they taught themselves the airplane from the manuals and that the instruction was useless due to the massive overloading of the training schedule. He said the training was geared to the brand new airline pilot and was tediously slow for a long time pilot. To make matters worse he said he was paired with a 400 hr F/O straight out of Mesa Academy (I dont remember the official name) in the simulator, so most of the time was spent trying to get the F/O to be anywhere remotely near being caught up with the airplane since prior to that the fastest thing he ever flew was a King Air for a few hours in school. So he ended up taking a type ride with next to no actual stick time in the sim. since the F/O needed it to be able to stay right side up.

I doubt Mesa could get Freedom or all the other RJ's up so quickly if it were not for the 15000 hr guys in effect training themselves. If ALPA had held their ground we should have at least been able to get all the RJ's at ML and the W/O's. I know if they get to my number I would much rather have an experienced W/O F/O beside me than a 400 hour guy who is just now experiencing the sensation of being over 18000 feet and 200 knots for the first time in his life!

Just some observations.
----------------
[/blockquote]

This was posted by a Mainline pilot who is currently in training at Mesa. It's good to here from someone actually IN training not just second and third hand info. -Cape

"having been through 9 initials and 2 requals in 13 years at
mainline I feel fairly qualified to comment on training. The Mesa
training can't even begin to compare with the resources we had on
mainline, but this isn't mainline, and Mesa doesn't have the
resources that mainline does. I don't know how Mesa compares with
other regional carriers since I came to the airlines via the
military. It is better than what the other J4J pilots are getting at
Midway Airlines. Their training is so bad it's a joke.

Our biggest complaint so far is poor training materials. 2 weeks into
school and we have yet to be given any color handouts, and the
cockpit poster in the classroom is for the CRJ-700, not the 200.
They are working on getting us color cockpit panels. I will say the
training staff is responsive to our complaints and seem to be doing
their best to get materials for us. Our groundschool instructor is
very good and really knows the CRJ200. He bends over backwards to
help us and has offered to meet after hours with anyone who wants
extra help. The new CRJ cockpit simulator is very nice. It's a
series of touch sensitive LCD screens laid out like the cockpit. To
move a toggle switch you touch the screen just above or below the
switch. You can even program the FMC using the touch screen.
Mainline has Cockpit Procedure Trainers that are basically sims
without visual or motion. This new trainer at Mesa isn't that nice,
but it will really help with understanding how things work.
Many of us who brought laptops are using the Red Triangle CRJ
Training Software, it helps to make up for the lack of material in
class.

The pace of training started very slow, but is picking up now. We
have a furloughed UAL Pilot in the class who has been hired into
Mesa's training department. He complained about 10,000 hour pilots
being given training at the same pace as Mesa Flight School
graduates. So now he's been tasked with developing a shorter course
for the J4J pilots.

Someone asked about "scabbing" our own jobs. Mainline ALPA would
have preferred to have all extra RJ's go to the Wholly Owned or Mid-
Atlantic which will be a division of mainline. But mainline & the
WO's didn't have the money to order lots of RJ's, so the contract
airlines like Mesa had to pick up the flying. The 50/50 job split
was the most fair way ALPA could come up with to handle this flying.
JO did tell the first J4J class that Mesa needed our experience
levels because with the rapid growth they would run out of F/O's with
the quals to upgrade.

J4J updates: Next class is 3-24 and now is supposed to be maxed out
at 30 Pilots. The senior F/O in our class will be bumped up to
Captain since he is senior to the junior Captain in the new class.

Still waiting to hear about type ratings for F/O's, the rumor is they
want to do it. Makes sense because if Mesa keeps running a J4J class
each month all the F/O's in this class will upgrade by summer. Then
we'd have to be pulled offline for a month to do upgrade training.

We have one Freedom Pilot in our J4J class, he was hoping to keep his
Freedom DOH for bidding. Of course the rest of the class wasn't too
happy with that idea. He was trying to have the best of both worlds,
Freedom DOH with the higher J4J payrates. Yesterday he was told he
was terminated from Freedom, he could not have a leave of absence.
His DOH will be the same as the rest of our class. He did keep his
Freedom employee number, that he is trying to get changed so he's not
marked for the rest of his time at Mesa."

 

[ClueByFour]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/7/2003 10:27:35 PM ONTHESTREET wrote:
The point of all this is you guys can rant and rave about the evil ML guy but the truth is except for a few very senior pilots,(The MEC, in closed session) NONE of us had any control over it!
----------------
[/blockquote]

Of course, the MEC drives the direction of the entire bargaining unit known as U ALPA.

Which, under the leadership of the current and past MECs continues to eat their young with predictable regularity.

As an aside, I love the fact that the J4J guys have the cajones to ***** about the pace of training after sliding into a job which, in all reality, probably "belongs" to somebody else. More wanton hubris.

 

[retread]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/8/2003 435 PM ClueByFour wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/7/2003 10:27:35 PM ONTHESTREET wrote:
The point of all this is you guys can rant and rave about the evil ML guy but the truth is except for a few very senior pilots,(The MEC, in closed session) NONE of us had any control over it!
----------------
[/blockquote]

Of course, the MEC drives the direction of the entire bargaining unit known as U ALPA.

Which, under the leadership of the current and past MECs continues to eat their young with predictable regularity.

As an aside, I love the fact that the J4J guys have the cajones to ***** about the pace of training after sliding into a job which, in all reality, probably "belongs" to somebody else. More wanton hubris.


----------------
[/blockquote]

Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah.

 

[crj579]

[/blockquote]

Of course, the MEC drives the direction of the entire bargaining unit known as U ALPA.

Which, under the leadership of the current and past MECs continues to eat their young with predictable regularity.

As an aside, I love the fact that the J4J guys have the cajones to ***** about the pace of training after sliding into a job which, in all reality, probably "belongs" to somebody else. More wanton hubris.


----------------
[/blockquote]

Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Wait weren't the WO's told they were "backdoor bandits" for wanting a flow through? What should these guys be called? Any suggestions, anyone?