RETIREMENT

[FWAAA]

Are we looking at different charts? Your numbers are a little low.

The way I read the PBGC chart is that the maximums are $4,653.41 straight life and $4,188.07 j&s if the plan is terminated in 2012 and $4,500.00 and $4,050.00, respectively, if the plan had been terminated in 2011.

.BTW, what plan was terminated in 2011?.

The retiree that 767 mechanic was talking about is 60 years old and is already in pay status, so their maximum benefit will be the age 60 amounts. For someone who has yet to retire (or has retired but not begun collecting their pension check), the age 65 amounts are correct.

The 2011 chart is the relevant one for AA because its bankruptcy was filed in 2011 even though the plans may be terminated in a later year. From the top of the page containing the charts:

The maximum guarantee applicable to a plan is fixed as of that plan's termination date except where termination occurs during a plan sponsor's bankruptcy and the sponsor entered bankruptcy on or after September 16, 2006, in which case the maximum guarantee is fixed as of the date the sponsor entered bankruptcy.

Since AA filed Ch 11 in November, 2011, the 2011 maximums will control all AA retirees no matter what year the plans are actually terminated. For purposes of the maximum guarantee, all AA defined benefit plans were terminated in 2011 if they're terminated at all.

 

[john john]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57366926/pension-agency-disputes-amr-comments-to-workers
/

AP) DALLAS — The federal pension-insurance agency accuses American Airlines of misleading employees about the safety of their retirement benefits.

 

[chris perry]

Whats new they have mislead us from the day I hired on...

 

[Buck]

Whats new they have mislead us from the day I hired on...

And when was that?

 

[eolesen]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57366926/pension-agency-disputes-amr-comments-to-workers
/

AP) DALLAS — The federal pension-insurance agency accuses American Airlines of misleading employees about the safety of their retirement benefits.

Hmmm... AA is saying 90% of employees and retirees, and PBGC is saying 13,000 out of 130,000.

Where exactly is the deception in saying 9 out of 10 employees and retirees have little to worry about?...

PBGC seems to be making more noise in this one bankruptcy proceeding than they have combined with all other termiations done in recent history...

 

[1AA]

Hmmm... AA is saying 90% of employees and retirees, and PBGC is saying 13,000 out of 130,000.

Where exactly is the deception in saying 9 out of 10 employees and retirees have little to worry about?...

PBGC seems to be making more noise in this one bankruptcy proceeding than they have combined with all other termiations done in recent history...

So far at this point the PBCG is supporting the employees more than the (Fight Like Hell) TWU is.

 

[strikeforce]

Hmmm... AA is saying 90% of employees and retirees, and PBGC is saying 13,000 out of 130,000.

Where exactly is the deception in saying 9 out of 10 employees and retirees have little to worry about?...

PBGC seems to be making more noise in this one bankruptcy proceeding than they have combined with all other termiations done in recent history...

It's election time E, and Obama may have gotten a phone call from the guy he invited to his inaugural ball.....Jim Little.

Obama certainly can't afford more job loses. And, Congress isn't too happy with AA after approving the pension deferrals and now filing BK. The political environment may play a role in AA's BK. Maybe???

 

[wrencher]

So far at this point the PBCG is supporting the employees more than the (Fight Like Hell) TWU is.

They want you to think like that just wait and see how many shares they recieve in the new company when they recieve the right amount they will allow AA to dump the plans in a heart beat just stay tuned ,but honestly I hope not..

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hmmm... AA is saying 90% of employees and retirees, and PBGC is saying 13,000 out of 130,000.

Actually, in the quote I saw AA said employees and the PBGC added in the retirees.

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

Actually, in the quote I saw AA said employees and the PBGC added in the retirees.

Jim

I think we may be victims of sloppy news reporting. Here's what Brundage said, according to the Star-Telegram:

In a letter sent to employees Monday, American's senior vice president of human resources, Jeff Brundage, attempted to allay workers' fears about the future of their pensions. Since American's parent company, AMR Corp., filed for bankruptcy in November, employees and their labor unions have expressed concern that the airline would jettison its pensions.

"For those whose pension benefit has vested, if the pension plans are terminated, more than 90 percent of participants would see no reduction in their pension benefit accrued as of the Nov. 29, 2011, Chapter 11 filing date if payments begin at normal retirement age," Brundage wrote. He added that excluding pilots and upper management, only 2 percent of vested workers could see a reduction in pension benefits.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/23/3681382/american-airlines-works-to-ease.html

Brundage used the term "participants," which includes employees and retirees.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think we may be victims of sloppy news reporting. Here's what Brundage said, according to the Star-Telegram:

Apparently I read one of the sloppily reported pieces. It substituted "employees" for "participants".

Jim

 

[Bob Owens]

Called th PBGC today and here is what they explained to me. First off is you cant go by the maximum tables to find out what you might get or if you are safe, you can only find out what you wont get. You will not get anything more than what the chart states. So if you are getting or have already earned more than $54000 you are SOL, you will not get a check for more than $4500/month from the PBGC and it could even be less than that.

The Age column has nothing to do with your age when they terminate the plan, it has to do with when you start collecting, for instance for plans terminating in 2011 under Straight life annuity no one would get more than $2925 a month if they start collecting at 60, or more than $4500 a month if they wait till 65. Our plan only allows us to start collecting at 55 so for us the numbers under 55 are useless.

Now I'm 50 years old, under our current plan if I start collecting my pension at 60 or 65 and the plan is Frozen or terminate employment now, I would be entitled to $2317/month, way under both, ok, so I know I will not be affected by the cap, but that does not mean that I will get $2317 at 60 or 65. If the plan gets put in the PBGC we would all be sent an Estimated Benefit Letter, the figures in that letter would be based on a calcualtion that uses among other things,our age when the plan went to the PBGC AND may be reduced if the plan was underfunded. Depending on those things we could get much less. She said the PBGC could not state what we would get until they had the plans.

I dont know what the company is basing their claims on and the PBGC really cant tell us what we would get until they get the pension. So what it comes down to is do you trust American Airlines? We do know that those who went before us, and made around the same as us report that their pensions were reduced quite a bit.

 

[TWU informer]

Called th PBGC today and here is what they explained to me. First off is you cant go by the maximum tables to find out what you might get or if you are safe, you can only find out what you wont get. You will not get anything more than what the chart states. So if you are getting or have already earned more than $54000 you are SOL, you will not get a check for more than $4500/month from the PBGC and it could even be less than that.

The Age column has nothing to do with your age when they terminate the plan, it has to do with when you start collecting, for instance for plans terminating in 2011 under Straight life annuity no one would get more than $2925 a month if we start collecting at 60, or more than $4500 a month if we wait till 65. Our plan only allows us to start collecting at 55 so for us the numbers under 55 are useless.

Now I'm 50 years old, under our current plan if I start collecting my pension at 60 or 65 and the plan is Frozen or terminate employment now I would be entitled to $2317/month, way under both, ok, so I know I will not be affected by the cap, but that does not mean that I will get $2317 at 60 or 65. If the plan gets put in the PBGC we would all be sent an Estimated Benefit Letter, the figures in that letter would be based on a calcualtion that uses among other things,our age when the plan went to the PBGC AND may be reduced if the plan was underfunded. Depending on those things we could get much less. She said the PBGC could not state what we would get until they had all the figures.

I dont know what the company is basing their claims on and the PBGC really cant tell us what we would get until they get the pension. So what it comes down to is do you trust American Airlines? We do know that those who went before us, and made around the same as us report that their pensions were reduced quite a bit.

GREAT... VOTE NO AND REQUEST A RELEASE.

They are bluffing

You should have called the PBGC, and knew that retirement at 55 would be costly or impossible, and any retirement age would be hit if underfunded, BEFORE you guided everyone to vote no and into this position to begin with.

So you are telling us that well after you lead us down this path, you finally called to get the facts.

UNREAL!
How in the hell can you sleep at night, knowing you guided us down this path, and did not get the PBGC facts until today.
That's criminal is you ask me!

 

[JABORD]

GREAT... VOTE NO AND REQUEST A RELEASE.

They are bluffing

You should have called the PBGC, and knew that retirement at 55 would be costly or impossible, and any retirement age would be hit if underfunded, BEFORE you guided everyone to vote no and into this position to begin with.

So you are telling us that well after you lead us down this path, you finally called to get the facts.

UNREAL!
How in the hell can you sleep at night, knowing you guided us down this path, and did not get the PBGC facts until today.
That's criminal is you ask me!

 

[700UW]

I had 17 Years at US when they terminated my pension as a Stock Clerk.

At age 50 I can collect $563 a month, as our plan had an 85 point plan and I could have retired then, if I wait till age 65 I will get around $900 a month, susbstantially reduced from what I would have collected if I retired and they didnt terminate the pension.

I am checking with my former Pension Rep to see what I actually lost and will post that info later.