Republic to spin off Frontier

[EXT PWR]

Anything could happen, but buying F9 would add a third and maybe 4th fleet type for WN with the potential 4th being Express-type feed by Republic with planes up to the E190. That's a big change to WN's business model and would drive up WN's costs when it's advantage over the network carriers is already shrinking. It would really add significantly to gates at one airport - DEN - where WN has enough gates for it's operation to expand and UA already has a much bigger operation than such a merger would create. F9 is reducing MKE to a spoke airport due at least partially to WN/FL, retreating to it's "home" airport as it's only real hub. F9, 2-3 years after exiting bankruptcy, is still struggling to be profitable (which is why Republic agreed to spin them off in the first place). Then there's the integration mess - Republic has single seniority lists for at least pilots. Would WN employees be happy integrating express employees into the WN lists?

Then there's that route map. Lay a WN/AT route map on top of it and see how many of the same cities are already served by WN/FL. The most successful mergers are when the sum of the two parts is much greater than either individual part. DL/NW combined DL's strong trans-Atlantic network with NW's strong trans-Pacific network. UA/CO did the same. Even US/HP combined a mostly western U.S. carrier with a mostly eastern U.S. and the combined company has been decently successful despite the integration issues.

Jim

Wn would buy them to kill them off , not to merge. Before Rjet bought F9 they were generating about 1 billion in revenue a year . Southwest offered 113 million on there bid. now Wn could offer 80 million and rjet just might bit.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Southwest offered 113 million on there bid. now Wn could offer 80 million and rjet just might bit.

Except that the $80 million might be more costly than the $113 million. Being one holding company, Republic Air Holdings has the ability to transfer monetary liabilities to F9 and monetary assets from F9. Plus even $80 million is a lot to pay just to eliminate a small competitor - F9 itself is only about half what Republic calls "branded operations" (50 of 98 planes). The other half is Republic/Chautauqua ops. That's what I meant earlier when I said you have to be careful when looking at route maps.

AS, if they were willing, would make a better fit. Likewise B6 except for the fleet commonality problem.

Jim

 

[swamt]

And prior to any spin-off or sale Republic/Frontier will cut about 450 employees. This is prior to the up coming move back to Denver, which will once again cut employees that are not able to relocate do to family issues. The article is below;

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2012/02/13/frontier-to-cut-446-more-jobs-in.html?ana=yfcpc

Take note of the date they want this done by, 2 months. WOW that's coming up quick. Not even enough respect to give the employees more time for options to consider.

 

[swamt]

And prior to any spin-off or sale Republic/Frontier will cut about 450 employees. This is prior to the up coming move back to Denver, which will once again cut employees that are not able to relocate do to family issues. The article is below;

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2012/02/13/frontier-to-cut-446-more-jobs-in.html?ana=yfcpc

Take note of the date they want this done by, 2 months. WOW that's coming up quick. Not even enough respect to give the employees more time for options to consider.

Here's another article on Frontier's future plans, note the quote midway down that states "This airline will fail" and "There's nothing left to buy"
All the Frontier employees and shareholders can blame the Frontier pilots union for being so hard headed and firm, instead of moving forward and coming to an agreement with the SWA pilots union to integrate. Hence, the Airtran pilots union almost pulled the same senario, but ultimately, woke up. Now AirTran and SWA will combine as one with job security.
Frontier employees need to start applying at SWA as soon as possible, SWA will be hiring over the next few years at all levels of employment. Plus they will have a huge pool of labor to choose from with the announcements of AA laying off 13,000 employees. I will still say, I think SWA will have some sort of input on the up coming bidding for Frontier, rather this time they will merge them in or comepletely shut it down is something to be seen. But appearently from this article, nobody else will want them. Here's the article below:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/cuts-at-frontier-mean-fewer-flights-higher-fares-cv467di-139329858.html

 

[jimntx]

And prior to any spin-off or sale Republic/Frontier will cut about 450 employees. This is prior to the up coming move back to Denver, which will once again cut employees that are not able to relocate do to family issues. The article is below;

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2012/02/13/frontier-to-cut-446-more-jobs-in.html?ana=yfcpc

Take note of the date they want this done by, 2 months. WOW that's coming up quick. Not even enough respect to give the employees more time for options to consider.

I loved this quote from the article...

"The notice states that 230 of the employees are flight crew members who will be reassigned to bases outside of Milwaukee. It did not specify where."

Oh, let me guess, teacher! Let me! My guess is Denver.

 

[Kev3188]

Interestingly, F9's website still shows them hiring for some positions in MKE...

 

[jimntx]

People to pack up maybe?

 

[swamt]

I loved this quote from the article...

"The notice states that 230 of the employees are flight crew members who will be reassigned to bases outside of Milwaukee. It did not specify where."

Oh, let me guess, teacher! Let me! My guess is Denver.

And how many flight crews are willing to relocate again with a failing airline? All the employees have been disrupted once, and now, they going to be disrupted again, just after getting re-settled from the 1st disruption. I bet SWA could pick them up for 1/2 their original offer of 113 million. Somewhere between 50-60 million would be about the about the best Frontier will see from anyone. Too much compatition in Denver now, SWA has now grown into the #2 slot and is continueing to grow. Also, Republic put all the Denver civillians on the back burner by exiting Denver (the general public won't forget that). I remember the public putting up a huge fight to help save Frontier from leaving Denver, and they still left, and now wants to come back--"oops we screwed up Denver, please take us back, oh, and by the way can you give us all the perks and insenatives you promiced before we screwed, or rather, left Denver before?" City still remembers all the employees dumped by Rep/Frontier when they left, now they don't work for the airline, and the airline is comming back. Are all the previous employees of Frontier garrenteed a job when they return, their previous jobs at the carrier? That's what I would say Frontier would have to do in order to get any perks to come back. Reinstate all emplyees in Denver that could not relocate with the company to Wis. Just saying...

 

[fixindaplane]

And how many flight crews are willing to relocate again with a failing airline? All the employees have been disrupted once, and now, they going to be disrupted again, just after getting re-settled from the 1st disruption. I bet SWA could pick them up for 1/2 their original offer of 113 million. Somewhere between 50-60 million would be about the about the best Frontier will see from anyone. Too much compatition in Denver now, SWA has now grown into the #2 slot and is continueing to grow. Also, Republic put all the Denver civillians on the back burner by exiting Denver (the general public won't forget that). I remember the public putting up a huge fight to help save Frontier from leaving Denver, and they still left, and now wants to come back--"oops we screwed up Denver, please take us back, oh, and by the way can you give us all the perks and insenatives you promiced before we screwed, or rather, left Denver before?" City still remembers all the employees dumped by Rep/Frontier when they left, now they don't work for the airline, and the airline is comming back. Are all the previous employees of Frontier garrenteed a job when they return, their previous jobs at the carrier? That's what I would say Frontier would have to do in order to get any perks to come back. Reinstate all emplyees in Denver that could not relocate with the company to Wis. Just saying...

I get the feeling almost none of you work for Frontier or Republic. There is nothing for the City of Denver to forget or forgive. They bring nothing to the table but greedy pockets to fill. Did you ever notice how few hangars there are on the "Third largest Airport in the World by area"? The city bleeds the airlines dry with excess taxes and fees. Killing the goose as it were. United is the only airline doing heavy maintenance on the airport because it's pockets are deep enough.

 

[swamt]

I get the feeling almost none of you work for Frontier or Republic. There is nothing for the City of Denver to forget or forgive. They bring nothing to the table but greedy pockets to fill. Did you ever notice how few hangars there are on the "Third largest Airport in the World by area"? The city bleeds the airlines dry with excess taxes and fees. Killing the goose as it were. United is the only airline doing heavy maintenance on the airport because it's pockets are deep enough.

So then, why the move of Frontier back to Denver? Or is maint. staying in MKE? I thought I read that maint. was relocating back to Denver if Denver was willing to still offer what it offered to keep Frontier from leaving Denver.
Your correct, I don't work for Frontier or Republic. But I do work for SWA who is watching the Rep/Frontier debacle with a microscope, and ready to pounce at any time, SWA might be the new parent co. to Frontier in the future. Never say Never...

 

[fixindaplane]

So then, why the move of Frontier back to Denver? Or is maint. staying in MKE? I thought I read that maint. was relocating back to Denver if Denver was willing to still offer what it offered to keep Frontier from leaving Denver.
Your correct, I don't work for Frontier or Republic. But I do work for SWA who is watching the Rep/Frontier debacle with a microscope, and ready to pounce at any time, SWA might be the new parent co. to Frontier in the future. Never say Never...

If so then there goes all the people and equipment.SWA just wants the gates and the Mexico routes. The ads where Southwest says how much they love Denver make my skin crawl. "We love you Denver, but we want to put a bunch of you out of work!"
The only thing that is coming back is the G.O. management. MKE is kaput.

 

[swamt]

If so then there goes all the people and equipment.SWA just wants the gates and the Mexico routes. The ads where Southwest says how much they love Denver make my skin crawl. "We love you Denver, but we want to put a bunch of you out of work!"
The only thing that is coming back is the G.O. management. MKE is kaput.

Roger that. 10-4 Thnx for the update. So if MKE is done, what is going to happen with the maint.? Will they start farming it all out, and use contract maint. everywhere?

 

[jimntx]

And how many flight crews are willing to relocate again with a failing airline? All the employees have been disrupted once, and now, they going to be disrupted again, just after getting re-settled from the 1st disruption.

Actually, I was wrong on my earlier post. I talked with my friend who flies for Frontier. The "employees being relocated" are employees of Republic, but not Frontier, who are being relocated because of a reduction in RJ flying at MKE (which is a result of eliminating the Frontier flights at MKE). I got the impression for talking with her that even now there are no "Frontier" flight crews based at MKE. There are some rj crews that for seniority list purposes are "Frontier", but they do not fly "Frontier" equipment. The single carrier certificate applies only to the merging of the seniority lists.

This is getting more complicated than the US Airways merger.

 

[swamt]

Actually, I was wrong on my earlier post. I talked with my friend who flies for Frontier. The "employees being relocated" are employees of Republic, but not Frontier, who are being relocated because of a reduction in RJ flying at MKE (which is a result of eliminating the Frontier flights at MKE). I got the impression for talking with her that even now there are no "Frontier" flight crews based at MKE. There are some rj crews that for seniority list purposes are "Frontier", but they do not fly "Frontier" equipment. The single carrier certificate applies only to the merging of the seniority lists.

This is getting more complicated than the US Airways merger.

Wow. your not kidding. Sounds complicated. Thx for the correction.

 

[fixindaplane]

Roger that. 10-4 Thnx for the update. So if MKE is done, what is going to happen with the maint.? Will they start farming it all out, and use contract maint. everywhere?

All Republic techs will be laid off. But they have been asked to train Frontier techs to replace them.