Report Says Sunday Is Bk Filing
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
supercruiser said:
If the above comment is truly how you feel, than that is ashame.
To say that the other groups skated and that all should have given up pensions while in BK is a flat-out selfish statment coming from a pilot, and you are not the first pilot to say it either.
Our pensions were not touched, because the liability was NOT combined. It was management that took pension OFF the table both in the summer and winter negotiations. As I stated on here previously, I know this for a fact as I was in those negotiations. Our acturarial told us that with the wage cuts, the co. had an insginificant liability to AFA's pension.
Our average pension for f/as is $13,000 per year; not $1 million.
Your satisfaction to see the rest of the groups lose their pension, will not lessen the reality of your pension being gone. If you think your paycut pays for our pensions, then what does our paycuts pay for ....nothing?
I suspect and have stated to Lakefield that I believe the entire pension issue with AFA and IAM is to satisfy ALPA, not because of a "real" liability. Lakefield denies this assertion.
To this day, we can't get the company to tell us what exactly IS AFA's liability, and if they could extrapolate that in a wage, how much is it.... the company states they don't really know.
I do know, however, what ALPA Defined Contribution yearly liability is in these front few years, and that was told by top senior ranks of managment to me personally when I posed the question.
Its huge.
So, my estimation is that the company will not be able to get ALPA to capitulate to relief for their Defined contributions, if the company allows AFA and IAM to still keep their pensions.
The whole thng is a scam.
A scam to get all the DBP frozen or terminated and reduce the pilots defined contribution.
I don't think you can sit and argue otherwise.
supercruiser
Advanced
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2002
- Messages
- 213
- Reaction score
- 11
Who first reported that a certain pilot was probably unemployable in the airline industry, except for US Airways?
Respectfully,
supercruiser
Respectfully,
supercruiser
usa320pilot minister of propaganda-you are most likely quite right on your assumption on DIP financing....however what you fail to project is where in the dickens they will get monies to EMERGE ?? <_<
that is what will determine the ultimate outcome......even lakefield has stated in the media that"no one is out there in the wings waiting to bail us out,particulary RSA ....
supercruiser
Advanced
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2002
- Messages
- 213
- Reaction score
- 11
PITbull said:
I think you have that right. ALPA was the chump last time, and would not like to see it repeated again. It's one thing to have a pension frozen, but quite another to have an earned and paid for benefit for most of career terminated. Yes the F/A pension is a fraction of what used to be a pilot pension. So what. If you wanted a bigger pension, go out and become a pilot or a mechanic, as the pension is based on earnings.
Yes I'm sure that US Airways would like to have every employee(except management of course) have no retirement except for a 401k. The pilot DC plan was to try to compensate somewhat for losing a career of earned pension benefit that was lost. (Yes I know it was "given up" by ALPA, not taken by the company or a judge. I disagree strongly about what took place.
In any event, everyone should have something or nothing. I don't agree with one group keeping a pension, while another group loses theirs. Everyone takes a haircut, or no one does. If you call that selfish, I guess that’s too bad. All the money paid out comes from the same big wallet. The “my fund's more funded than your fund†doesn't wash with me.
supercruiser
supercruiser
Advanced
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2002
- Messages
- 213
- Reaction score
- 11
700UW said:
Trust me, the pension is gone. Pilots that retired last year got a few months of their pay into the new plan, and some that retired immediately after coming out of CH 11 got nothing but their PBGC money, a small fraction of what they had earned and paid for over their whole careers. ALPA and US Airways said "too bad you had to retire so soon, and didn't accumulate anything." It was shameful. A lawsuit is pending on that one too. The few pilots that are young might have accumulated some money under this plan, but the average age of a current pilot is 52, and you have to retire at 60.
While the DC plan is better than a sharp stick in the eye, it’s no pension, and certainly not remotely close to providing the same benefit as the old pension plan. The proposal by US Airways is to reduce that amount by 50%, so basically trashes the original replacement DC plan. In addition, for First Officers, US Airways assumptions (which determined what % of your pay went into the plan and varies from 10-100%) assumed you might upgrade or re-upgrade to Capt as some point, so any stagnation caused by, say more furloughs, makes that group accumulate even that much less.
supercruiser
CynicalResAgent
Veteran
"They're not a victim of low-fare competition," he said. "They're a victim of a decade of not getting around to solve their problems."
-Geez, I'd love to send out a hunge thanks to the inept management group, but flowers don't seem appropriate and my doggie already did her business!!!!!!!!!!!
-Geez, I'd love to send out a hunge thanks to the inept management group, but flowers don't seem appropriate and my doggie already did her business!!!!!!!!!!!
PITbull
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 7,784
- Reaction score
- 456
supercruiser said:
My issue I presented to you regarding how much the f/as average yearly pension is, was not intented to get into a debate with you on trying to secure more of a defined benefit for the f/as . Rather, it was to express to you what IS; not what we would like it to be.
With regard to the agents frozen pension in 1992, when no other group was asked to freeze their pension.... where were you on that. If it were today, I would venture to say, you wouldn't have opened your mouth.
AFA and IAM losing pensions in BK would not have saved you from taking a "hair cut" today.
Most of what is happening to this industry has to do with hey-wire fuel prices out of control and anyone's reach. And there is no end in sight.
This Management's intent is to get labor to the bottom of the "wage scale" industry wide in order to satisfy their appetite for continual concessions. Only then, will we find peace for a few years; however, we will be broke and have other personal probems to contend with.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Considering the state the company is in; and there has been NO BOARD MEETING called one can only dream up the nightmare scenerios. I think we're about to see Bronner getting in touch with his inner child and start throwing tantrums.
Oh, and USA320pilot, stop posting that you posted it first. The guys on the ALPA board have you beat by miles. But you don't post over there much because, well, they've figured you out.
Oh, and USA320pilot, stop posting that you posted it first. The guys on the ALPA board have you beat by miles. But you don't post over there much because, well, they've figured you out.
mwereplanes
Senior
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2004
- Messages
- 302
- Reaction score
- 0
He has no where else to post. He is childlike.
mr
mr
twoturnin
Senior
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2003
- Messages
- 331
- Reaction score
- 15
Walmart you should have said--"In my opinion PHL & PIT reps are doing the right thing" quite a few folks just might not agree with your opinion or the PHL/PIT reps and are being held hostage by four men they dont even know---in not getting to vote their opinions----I say let 3000 + opinions count not 4--now this is just my opinion .
Harry Callahan
Veteran
hp_fa said:
Bob I also am sorry to hear of this & also my best wishes.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
PitBull,
I know it’s fashionable to blame the current administration for everything that is wrong with America today, but this Bush has only been in charge for 4 of the past how many years US has been in a downward spiral. You can’t honestly believe any administration can help US at this point; sadly, US employees are reaping the fruits of years of mismanagement and lack of a long-term, viable strategy.
I do think US’ history will be very kind to US employees in regard to the employees and will show management as bearing more of the responsibility. While labor has had a hand in many downfalls in the airline industry, US employees have really done as much as they can reasonably be expected to help the company.
Piney,
While you and I don’t agree about a lot of things, you are to be commended for your support of US. Few customers are willing to invest the time or energy you have and it is a tribute to USAirways’ employees. Don’t think your efforts have been in vain or that you didn’t try hard enough; success in life is not measured as much by results but by the effort and spirit exerted in the process. I know you can’t put that on your performance review but we all know that is much more representative of real life.
I know it’s fashionable to blame the current administration for everything that is wrong with America today, but this Bush has only been in charge for 4 of the past how many years US has been in a downward spiral. You can’t honestly believe any administration can help US at this point; sadly, US employees are reaping the fruits of years of mismanagement and lack of a long-term, viable strategy.
I do think US’ history will be very kind to US employees in regard to the employees and will show management as bearing more of the responsibility. While labor has had a hand in many downfalls in the airline industry, US employees have really done as much as they can reasonably be expected to help the company.
Piney,
While you and I don’t agree about a lot of things, you are to be commended for your support of US. Few customers are willing to invest the time or energy you have and it is a tribute to USAirways’ employees. Don’t think your efforts have been in vain or that you didn’t try hard enough; success in life is not measured as much by results but by the effort and spirit exerted in the process. I know you can’t put that on your performance review but we all know that is much more representative of real life.
