Regional Pay
- Thread starter Hopeful
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Checking it Out
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- Apr 3, 2003
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The TWU has negotiated flexable starting rates in the past. I believe regional pay needs to be looked at closely in the upcoming openers. The concept is good and we need some assurance that it does not open the door for a reduction in pay for some. I can see a potential for AA wanting some sort of national average for skill as a trade. Example: The average pay for a structure mechanic is 14.00 +/- dollars an hour. But an avionics tech is a little higher than our current pay.
We all have seen what happens when poor language can do to a carrier. Just look at NWA. The farmout of heavy maintenance lines has gone from 0 to 66% in just a few short years. ( 8 out of 12 outsourced)
We all have seen what happens when poor language can do to a carrier. Just look at NWA. The farmout of heavy maintenance lines has gone from 0 to 66% in just a few short years. ( 8 out of 12 outsourced)
The TWU has negotiated flexable starting rates in the past.
Flex rates are not Regional rates. What the TWU in fact did was agree to a starting wage that was so despicably low that in many regions of the country the company could not fill vacanicies or retain new mechanics. They were hiring kids out of school, investing money in them for training during their first six months and then the new hires were quitting and going to real union jobs. Who ever heard of a union job that was so undesireable that they could not keep workers? You dont, except when that union is the TWU.
The flex rates were completely at the company's sole discretion, the union could beg but there was no mechanism in place that took into account the cost of living, it was based solely upon whether or not the company could retain mechanics.
"Flex rates" are another example of how the TWU is a company union. They agree to the lowest starting rates and then allow the company an easy out when they went so low that they cant hire or retain mechanics. They should have told the company, "you wanted it you got it, if you cant keep workers there we will be willing to talk but we are getting something out of the deal". But, instead they put in the most pathetic language in the industry "Flex rates".
We had an incident a few years back when some mechanics transferred into NY from LAX due to an illegal layoff (grievance still pending three years later). We had mechanics that were hired in NY on a higher Flex Rate than the LAX mechanics after the LAX mechanics. The company claimed that they were not entitled to the same rate as those who were originally hired in NY, with less seniority and Gary Yingst agreed with them, They can do that". I went ballistic, blasting the whole concept of Flex rates at the company's sole discretion to start with, and the Internationals interpretation of the language. I contacted our lawyer who agreed with me that they should get paid. Apparently Bobby Gless forwarded the Lawyers letter to the International since they changed their view shortly after its arrival.
Flex rates, even though some mechanics may end up with a higher rate are an abomination. The company ends up offering a higher rate than the Union was able to negotiate, and the impotent union just sits back and allows the company a free hand at offering different starting rates at its sole discretion as if there was no union in place..
I believe regional pay needs to be looked at closely in the upcoming openers.
Yes but with a real union in place. We cant allow the same union that has screwed things up so bad for over 20 years to remain in place to screw us up anymore. We need AMFA.
The concept is good and we need some assurance that it does not open the door for a reduction in pay for some. I can see a potential for AA wanting some sort of national average for skill as a trade. Example: The average pay for a structure mechanic is 14.00 +/- dollars an hour. But an avionics tech is a little higher than our current pay.
A real Union man you are!!! "I can see a potential for AA wanting". Are you for real? So in other words since AA might want it, the TWU might be able to get it? Well if the company wants it then how does the TWU get "credit" for it? $14.00+/-? You mean less than what they were paying in 1983? This is what to expect from the TWU? $14.00 plus or MINUS per hour?
Is there any doubt in anyones mind that these guys have got to go when they say things like "AA wanting" and "$14.00 plus or minus an hour"?
We all have seen what happens when poor language can do to a carrier. Just look at NWA.
We dont have to look at what has happened at NWA over the last two years, we can just look at what the TWU has done over the last twenty years.
The farmout of heavy maintenance lines has gone from 0 to 66% in just a few short years. ( 8 out of 12 outsourced)
In a year or so all the NWA guys will be back, at full pay with all their benifits, holidays and vacations intact. In the meantime, according to the TWUs numbers, our group which has shrunk from almost 21000 to around 14000, will continue to shrink.
Flex rates are not Regional rates. What the TWU in fact did was agree to a starting wage that was so despicably low that in many regions of the country the company could not fill vacanicies or retain new mechanics. They were hiring kids out of school, investing money in them for training during their first six months and then the new hires were quitting and going to real union jobs. Who ever heard of a union job that was so undesireable that they could not keep workers? You dont, except when that union is the TWU.
The flex rates were completely at the company's sole discretion, the union could beg but there was no mechanism in place that took into account the cost of living, it was based solely upon whether or not the company could retain mechanics.
"Flex rates" are another example of how the TWU is a company union. They agree to the lowest starting rates and then allow the company an easy out when they went so low that they cant hire or retain mechanics. They should have told the company, "you wanted it you got it, if you cant keep workers there we will be willing to talk but we are getting something out of the deal". But, instead they put in the most pathetic language in the industry "Flex rates".
We had an incident a few years back when some mechanics transferred into NY from LAX due to an illegal layoff (grievance still pending three years later). We had mechanics that were hired in NY on a higher Flex Rate than the LAX mechanics after the LAX mechanics. The company claimed that they were not entitled to the same rate as those who were originally hired in NY, with less seniority and Gary Yingst agreed with them, They can do that". I went ballistic, blasting the whole concept of Flex rates at the company's sole discretion to start with, and the Internationals interpretation of the language. I contacted our lawyer who agreed with me that they should get paid. Apparently Bobby Gless forwarded the Lawyers letter to the International since they changed their view shortly after its arrival.
Flex rates, even though some mechanics may end up with a higher rate are an abomination. The company ends up offering a higher rate than the Union was able to negotiate, and the impotent union just sits back and allows the company a free hand at offering different starting rates at its sole discretion as if there was no union in place..
I believe regional pay needs to be looked at closely in the upcoming openers.
Yes but with a real union in place. We cant allow the same union that has screwed things up so bad for over 20 years to remain in place to screw us up anymore. We need AMFA.
The concept is good and we need some assurance that it does not open the door for a reduction in pay for some. I can see a potential for AA wanting some sort of national average for skill as a trade. Example: The average pay for a structure mechanic is 14.00 +/- dollars an hour. But an avionics tech is a little higher than our current pay.
A real Union man you are!!! "I can see a potential for AA wanting". Are you for real? So in other words since AA might want it, the TWU might be able to get it? Well if the company wants it then how does the TWU get "credit" for it? $14.00+/-? You mean less than what they were paying in 1983? This is what to expect from the TWU? $14.00 plus or MINUS per hour?
Is there any doubt in anyones mind that these guys have got to go when they say things like "AA wanting" and "$14.00 plus or minus an hour"?
We all have seen what happens when poor language can do to a carrier. Just look at NWA.
We dont have to look at what has happened at NWA over the last two years, we can just look at what the TWU has done over the last twenty years.
The farmout of heavy maintenance lines has gone from 0 to 66% in just a few short years. ( 8 out of 12 outsourced)
In a year or so all the NWA guys will be back, at full pay with all their benifits, holidays and vacations intact. In the meantime, according to the TWUs numbers, our group which has shrunk from almost 21000 to around 14000, will continue to shrink.
- Aug 20, 2002
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Only when the TWU is threatened do they respond to the needs of the full membership.Checking it Out said:
The concept is good and we need some assurance that it does not open the door for a reduction in pay for some.
Why are you now concerned with the reduction of pay for anyone?
Do you really believe that AA will negotiate anything with the TWU where they do not win?
The TWU runs from layoffs at the expense of wages and benefits and now they are considering begging for pay increases from the same company that walks all over them. I can see it now, brother we cannot obtain regional pay unless we screw the new hires.
Where do you obtain your average structure mechanic wage from?
Are you suggesting to the company that they lower the wages of some to pay for others because of an average pay you pulled up from an Aviation Maintenance Magazine, where the salary survey is comprised of FBO's up through the majors?
While you are averaging wages, do not forget the OSM classification. Are going to suggest to these technicians that they take less to compensate your average? They are already at $9.00 an hour to start. Your attempt to compile an average wage based on your Industrial Union mentality within the mechanic craft and class is a continuation of the same concept you have been practicing for years. The membership will not stand for this concept. Why do you want to dumb down your fellow members, just because they are less senior than you?
Checking it Out
Veteran
- Apr 3, 2003
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Boy did this stir up some twisted emotions! Do you two really know what your talking about? Regional pay is fine as long as it does not affect anyone which might cause a reduction in pay!
The example was only an example!
The example was only an example!
Checking it Out
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- Apr 3, 2003
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Does regional Pay apply to all Airlines or are you just talking about AA?
OP
Hopeful
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- Dec 21, 2002
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #7
I just posted this poll basically to address the divisions between the main bases and the line stations as one means of healing. I used TWU members as the topic because we are a collective bargaining unit and regional pay would have to be negotiated.
As far as CIO's statement cautioning a reduction in pay if regional compensation was implemented, I do see the point. I know people who work for non union companies that have regional compensation and if they were to transfer to another state that would have a lower cost of living, none of their resepective companies would LOWER their pay. Rather they would freeze their salaries until an employee with similar seniority and position reach that salary.
As often as I disagree with CIO, he did bring up a point that I understand.
As far as CIO's statement cautioning a reduction in pay if regional compensation was implemented, I do see the point. I know people who work for non union companies that have regional compensation and if they were to transfer to another state that would have a lower cost of living, none of their resepective companies would LOWER their pay. Rather they would freeze their salaries until an employee with similar seniority and position reach that salary.
As often as I disagree with CIO, he did bring up a point that I understand.
AMFANOT2004
Newbie
- Apr 23, 2004
- 13
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Hey lets put birdchette back he will really bring togetherness between the line and maintenance bases. I hear he likes to break them in before they get married.
Thinking aloud in AFW.
Thinking aloud in AFW.
Decision 2004
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2004
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Bob,Bob Owens said:
Not only does CIO not know what he is talking about, he is also a proven liar like Jim Little.
Checking it Out said:
PROOF that Checking it Out is a common liar and willing to claim anything in public.
TWU Debate Security Demanding Video Camera be Turned Off - Video Clip - Click to Watch
