Read It And Weep

[Bear96]

Well Bear96, I have people in management who know the facts telling me one thing, and I have a newspaper article telling me another. Considering most newspaper "professionals" don't get 1/2 the stuff they print correct, I'm sticking with what I was told directly. You're welcome to your own opinion based upon a newspaper article. I also wasn't "schmoozing" with anyone and really wouldn't want to hang around with any of them outstide these meetings. It was a group of Captains participating in a training session who asked some very tough and pointed questions to these VP's and I believe they gave honest answers. I don't doubt that the 1113 hammer will definitely hanging over our heads during negotiations nor did I state otherwise.

[post="191285"][/post]​

Granted newspapers always get it wrong about the airline biz.

But, management also has a vested interest here in selling you something. Look at USAirways, where they are playing the pilots like a fiddle. Their jobs will be much much easier if they can get pilots to go along with them. It sounds to me like several of them were surrounding you and sweet-talking you with, "Oh, don't worry about those silly reports about voiding labor contracts; we don't want to have to hurt you; just give us your wallet, and everything will be fine." Meanwhile, they were gathering around you in an ever-shrinking circle, each holding a nice sharp butcher knife behind their backs in case you even pause for a moment to think about not coughing up your wallet.

BTW, did they mention that if you just give them what they ask for, they'll give you a lollipop in the form of massive future expansion in return? Or will that be the next training session...

 

[spacewaitress]

I guess the truth just slipped those VPs minds.

But when have you ever gotten them to tell the truth?

 

[ualdriver]

Bear96-

I'll respond to an intelligent post like you posted with my opinion to what you stated......

Newspapers ALMOST always get it wrong. Period.


Bear96 steated: "It sounds to me like several of them were surrounding you and sweet-talking you with, "Oh, don't worry about those silly reports about voiding labor contracts; we don't want to have to hurt you; just give us your wallet, and everything will be fine."

First of all, they came to our group one at a time over a 3 day period (along with dispatchers, crew desk people, aircraft routers, etc.) and were grilled mercilessly by our group. One Captain told one of our VP's that he was blowing smoke up our ass using those exact words. I didn't agree with that Captain, but that was the atmosphere in the room sometimes. It was very open and frank.

These VP's were not selling me or anyone else anything. They told us what they were seeing from their perspective and that was it. I agree with you that a tact management will take with the employee groups is to get the pilots to agree to cuts first, then it makes it easier for the other labor groups to follow. That strategy was not taken in these meetings, in my opinion. NOT ONE VP came in the room and said, "just go along with this and we'll buy you guys a bunch of airplanes down the road so you can upgrade and make more money in the long term." They sold us nothing, nor did they try to in my opinion.

If you want more info, you can PM me and I'll discuss in more detail as to what they had to say, but I really don't feel like being flamed by half the board so I'm done for now.

ualdriver

 

[crossfeed]

I have been to meetings with management, and it is hard for me to take them to seriously. Time line fits, wait till after the election to make the announcement for pension cuts, (mid November), then petition the courts to abrogate the contracts, which requires 60 days, (mid January). All the cuts are effective in January. The judge granted UAL another 30 day extension, have not heard him complaining about the extention this time, maybe he's seen the plan?

 

[Rampman]

The first thing UAL will do is contract out the Ted operation and have ANYBODY working for TED under a new company. Oh yeah, can you say TED 757s.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ualdriver,
I commend your efforts at trying to rationalize with your co-workers. I'm not sure how much US' history can be tied to United (I don't think it's a one for one correlation) but UA clearly has to follow some of US' steps in order to turn itself around financially. I genuinely think UA has some sharp and genuine leaders in place now but I'm not sure that will be enough to get UAL out of bankruptcy. United's problem at this point is shoring up the balance sheet enough to prove to investors that United is capable of surviving on its own so that they will provide exit financing. Competition in the industry will only increase as hundreds of new LCC aircraft are delivered and many of them are specifically targeted at UA.
That doesn't mean you or anyone else should give up but it does say how incredibly difficult the turnaround will be. I am continually impressed at how well composed most airline employees are (at least in public) in the midst of the massive turmoil in their lives. I continue to have good experiences with United personnel and I commend each of you for your efforts.
Good luck to each and every one of you.

 

[Bear96]

... UA clearly has to follow some of US' steps in order to turn itself around financially...

[post="191411"][/post]​

OK now THAT was funny.

So all we have to do is what U has done, right?

And we will end up being the great success U now is?

Great advice... thanks...

 

[mrfish3726]

Judge for USAIR only made them take a 21% cut instead of the 23% USAIR management wanted. He did feel remorse for the financial hardships that MOST USAIR employees will have to endure going back to 1980'S wages. But you can sure bet that this ruling has SET THE PRECIDENCE for the legacy carriers to follow in their footsteps.

It is only a band-aid for USAIR, their still wounded and bleeding profusely. It's only a matter of time, before they have to pull the plug because there is no brain activity.

 

[Bear96]

ualdriver,

My but you are so concerned with being "flamed." I am not sure if you consider my posts "flaming." Just trying to have an interesting conversation.

You are right; I was not in those meetings. (VPs rarely bother to meet with lowly F/As during OUR training sessions, y'know.) I was just giving my reaction to what might have transpired based on what you said and on my previous experiences with management in the always-frolickin' airline biz. But, your mileage may vary.

However, do you REALLY believe this:

These VP's were not selling me or anyone else anything.

[post="191387"][/post]​

Maybe they were good actors, but c'mon... you're a pilot for a major airline... I know you are smarter than that.

Oh-- and WorldTraveler-- don't get me wrong; I am not saying further labor cuts aren't going to happen, or even that they are not necessary. But let's not kid ourselves about management being nice about it or somehow not trying to make a huge land grab, like we are witnessing over at the Little (and Soon-to-be-Getting Smaller) U. It has already passed the point for me personally where it is not worth it anymore to work at United. I am basically a neutral observer at this point with very little at stake. But I can still call it when I see someone either being schnookered, or doing the schnookering.

But, I know, you will continue to tell all the airline folk to suck it up for the common good of keeping your airfares cheap and your upgrades plentily available... How altruistic...

 

[firstamendment]

Judge for USAIR only made them take a 21% cut instead of the 23% USAIR management wanted. He did feel remorse for the financial hardships that MOST USAIR employees will have to endure going back to 1980'S wages. But you can sure bet that this ruling has SET THE PRECIDENCE for the legacy carriers to follow in their footsteps.

It is only a band-aid for USAIR, their still wounded and bleeding profusely. It's only a matter of time, before they have to pull the plug because there is no brain activity.

[post="191427"][/post]​

Oh how compassionate. A whole 2% worth. #### that s###. Compassion my butt. Watch out UAL.

Fish, you always seem alittle happy when bad news comes the way of US, UAL, or any of the other legacies. Are you happy now that we at U are now the lowest paid in the industry? Does it make you sleep better? Does it make you fell all goose pimply? I hope you enjoy this moment. Please don't ever let your presence known if you are on one of our airplanes. Remember, I WILL serve your drink!! :angry: h34r:

 

[mrfish3726]

FirstAmendment,

I've always found it appauling what the management teams have done to several once great air lines. I merely pointed out the FACT that the BK judge at USAIR just set the stage for all pay concessions coming down the pike at ALL the legacy carriers.

Is it fair for the employees to subsidize the survival of their livelyhood? No I don't think it is fair, and kudos to all that resist. I knew exactly what was going to happen at UniTED after the BK filling, that is why I resigned and moved on. It was and is going to be nothing more than a loosing proposition.

What is/has/and will happen at USAIR WILL follow at UAL and Delta, you wait and see! B)

 

[Borescope]

Hey Fish, Welcome back, good to hear from you again

 

[Taipan]

My predictions with todays news
1.Delta is in chapter 11 no if ands or butts about it
2.American, another threat of ch11 is coming soon(more pay and benefit cuts for you)
3.I hope I am wrong about this one but a US air like 23% actually ended up being 21% paycut for everyone but management, a floating scale cut for them most taking 1 to 5% at best
4.Pension gone, being replaced with a small matching 401k no one can afford to put in the matching money
5.Try to lock you in with a 8 to 10 year contract
6.Higher medical cost, with the upcoming cuts alot of familys will have to really look carefully at these jobs
7.Starting ramp/csr pay around $7.00 dollars or less
8.The unions EAP program (employee assitance program) will be very busy
9.The ERJ 190 flying (90 seater)
10.United express expanding again
11.If southwest is really hedged at 26.00 a barrell for the next year and half this may not happen, if they arent they may have to ask for concessions from there across the board industry leading contracts recently signed
12.Continental paycuts coming soon
13.Northwest having to renegotiate with alpa already
Feel free to add on any you might think of

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Question,
Whats a 9 letter word that means putting a loaded gun to someones head ??

(Legal) "E X _ _ _ _ _ _ N"

NH/BB's

 

[mrfish3726]

Borscope,

From a fellow mechanic, I guess I should say thanks . It's just been so quite at UAL lately. But I liked Braces comment about still not having a sound business plan. Why do they say such stupid stuff? If they had a plan they would have revealed it a year ago. But to this day, they have no idea were to turn but to labor AGAIN fricking AMAZING

Was just sitting here admiring my last RETRO check, I can breath easier now knowing that I am finally paid in full