Read It And Weep

[spacewaitress]

United will seek to void union contracts

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/041015/airlines_united_1.html

 

[UAL_TECH]

United will seek to void union contracts

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/041015/airlines_united_1.html

[post="191178"][/post]​

Here we go folks.
Hang on, it's going to get bumpy!!!

Take Care,
View attachment 2014 UT

 

[ualdriver]

Well, I think that's a little bit of sensational journalism in the title. It should read, "If UAL cannot peacefully negotiate labor cost reductions with each labor group before mid-January it will seek to void that union's contract." Obviously, this should be no surprise as management/exit financing banks have said they want to see 500M in labor reductions, and that was BEFORE oil was in the mid 50's. Each increase of $1 per barrel of oil equals 60M/yr. extra for UAL in yearly expenses.

I, and a group of other UAL Captains, have had the opportunity to meet with just about every VP at UAL over the past few days for about 1 1/2 hours each, and even though I am a bit pessimistic in general, I was very impressed with the NEW group of management (85% have left UAL since Tilton) we have in place. They seem genuinely interested in the survival of UAL, and some of them left higher paying positions at financially healthy companies in order to come to UAL to turn UAL around. According to these VP's, they will be losing their pensions as well and will be participating in the cost cutting. We'll see.....

They (management) told us that they (management+banks) understand that oil probably won't be at 60 bucks a barrel forever, and that they want to tie a greater % of our compensation to company performance, so that the company can pay less in difficult times (like now) and pay more when they can afford to in more prosperous times. Believe it or not, one VP stated that he doesn't feel labor should be giving up huge amounts of money without some sort of protection now when our expenses are artificially high, only to see expenses like oil, bankruptcy costs, pax bookaway, etc., go down with labor haven given too much during a difficult time. Hence, tying a greater % of our compensation to company performance to protect against giving away "too much."

As I have mentioned before, if you're of the mentality that you don't want to give any more, and will not under any circumstance, hopefully you and your peers have AT LEAST several months' worth of living expenses in the bank. If any one union group does things the "hard way," I imagine spooked financial institutions could pull their money and liquidation could be a possibility before mid summer (my opinion). NOV-JAN should be interesting months.

 

[spacewaitress]

As I have mentioned before, if you're of the mentality that you don't want to give any more, and will not under any circumstance, hopefully you and your peers have AT LEAST several months' worth of living expenses in the bank.

[post="191196"][/post]​

All I'm doing is passing on information. Don't make assumptions about what I am willing and unwilling to do...and FWIW, this DOESN'T come as a surprise!

 

[Winglet]

According to these VP's, they will be losing their pensions as well and will be participating in the cost cutting. We'll see.....

[post="191196"][/post]​

Oh, pleeeese. I love these guys. I'll bet they said all this with conviction and sincerity, too.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Well, I think that's a little bit of sensational journalism in the title. It should read, "If UAL cannot peacefully negotiate labor cost reductions with each labor group before mid-January it will seek to void that union's contract." Obviously, this should be no surprise as management/exit financing banks have said they want to see 500M in labor reductions, and that was BEFORE oil was in the mid 50's. Each increase of $1 per barrel of oil equals 60M/yr. extra for UAL in yearly expenses.

Actually, it should have read “United begins talks with Unionsâ€￾.
Instead we get blind sighted by the “move toward voiding its labor contracts in early November.â€￾
Good negotiating tactic, makes me all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

I, and a group of other UAL Captains, have had the opportunity to meet with just about every VP at UAL over the past few days for about 1 1/2 hours each, and even though I am a bit pessimistic in general, I was very impressed with the NEW group of management (85% have left UAL since Tilton) we have in place. They seem genuinely interested in the survival of UAL, and some of them left higher paying positions at financially healthy companies in order to come to UAL to turn UAL around. According to these VP's, they will be losing their pensions as well and will be participating in the cost cutting. We'll see.....

They (management) told us that they (management+banks) understand that oil probably won't be at 60 bucks a barrel forever, and that they want to tie a greater % of our compensation to company performance, so that the company can pay less in difficult times (like now) and pay more when they can afford to in more prosperous times. Believe it or not, one VP stated that he doesn't feel labor should be giving up huge amounts of money without some sort of protection now when our expenses are artificially high, only to see expenses like oil, bankruptcy costs, pax bookaway, etc., go down with labor haven given too much during a difficult time. Hence, tying a greater % of our compensation to company performance to protect against giving away "too much."

As I have mentioned before, if you're of the mentality that you don't want to give any more, and will not under any circumstance, hopefully you and your peers have AT LEAST several months' worth of living expenses in the bank. If any one union group does things the "hard way," I imagine spooked financial institutions could pull their money and liquidation could be a possibility before mid summer (my opinion). NOV-JAN should be interesting months.

Oh great, are you an airbus captain too?

:down: UT

 

[737nCH11]

My Magic 8 Ball says that I will be voting "NO". :angry:

 

[Borescope]

some of them left higher paying positions at financially healthy companies in order to come to UAL to turn UAL around.

[post="191196"][/post]​

Wouldn't you if there was a ton of money paid up front to your retirement. Look what Tilton got

 

[Borescope]

My Magic 8 Ball says that I will be voting "NO". :angry:

[post="191242"][/post]​

I hate to tell you my friend, but you ain't going to get a chance to vote. If the companys lawyers go to the judge and convince him that they need to Lorenzoize UAL----------POOF, you contract is gone. I don't think the judge would do that, but never say never. <_<

 

[Borescope]

Hey, maybe Tilton has talked to Savoy Consultants to get a little info from Frankie on just how to go about it. Ya, think?

 

[Bear96]

Well, I think that's a little bit of sensational journalism in the title. It should read, "If UAL cannot peacefully negotiate labor cost reductions with each labor group before mid-January it will seek to void that union's contract."

[post="191196"][/post]​

"Sensational journalism?" WHO is being misleading?

The article says UA wants to begin negotiations and "expects to move towards voiding its labor contracts" in EARLY NOVEMBER (as in, about three weeks from now). They want the changes FULLY IMPLEMENTED (as in, negotiations complete; details worked out; and membership ratification) by January.

And, the article says even terminating the pensions will now NOT BE ENOUGH.

The title seems totally accurate to me. The only ones being "sensational" were, apparently, the VPs you were schmoozing with.

Do you really think they won't be filing S 1113(e) or ( c) motions until January to have a nice big negotiating sledgehammer hanging over the bargaining table? No. Watch for the motions in early November, just like the article says.

 

[Bizman]

Now no one wants to see UA go out of business and I for one don't think they will. But when walking through the terminal, it is sure nice to see the pilots humbled and off their mighty pedestal. I might even see some with brown pants unstead of blue after November.

 

[tinpadro]

I only wish Public contact people had the power to speak to VPs and other higher ups in a friendly chat session. As the company slides toward an abyss, Public contact people and their ideas are shut out of the discussion. Our group is left in the dark and told do what we say and don't exceeed your 14 minutes of personal time or you will be written up. In addition to our own job, we must transfer calls to Hertz, AVis and now offer Mileage Plus Visa Cards since Banc One finances us. All this and keep that happy smile since we are told Tilton knows best and do what it takes to save the company. Never mind the contract says you can be laid off if your senority is 1994 or sooner.

I wish the company could work as fast as we have to and be clocked for going to the bathroom. Only then will we see producitvity improvements.

 

[ualdriver]

Bizman: "it is sure nice to see the pilots humbled and off their mighty pedestal. I might even see some with brown pants unstead of blue after November."

Guys like you are part of the problem with this airline. Pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, management personnel, rampers, etc., will all lose houses, marriages, health insurance, etc., if UAL fails. Even though I have had bad experiences with every employee group on the property, I don't wish anyone ill will nor do I think it's "nice" to see people going through any sort of the emotional turmoil we will soon be facing. Don't bother responding unless you just feel the need to vent about those evil pilots. I won't be answering.

Bear96: The article says UA wants to begin negotiations and "expects to move towards voiding its labor contracts" in EARLY NOVEMBER (as in, about three weeks from now). They want the changes FULLY IMPLEMENTED (as in, negotiations complete; details worked out; and membership ratification) by January.

Well Bear96, I have people in management who know the facts telling me one thing, and I have a newspaper article telling me another. Considering most newspaper "professionals" don't get 1/2 the stuff they print correct, I'm sticking with what I was told directly. You're welcome to your own opinion based upon a newspaper article. I also wasn't "schmoozing" with anyone and really wouldn't want to hang around with any of them outstide these meetings. It was a group of Captains participating in a training session who asked some very tough and pointed questions to these VP's and I believe they gave honest answers. I don't doubt that the 1113 hammer will definitely hanging over our heads during negotiations nor did I state otherwise.

UAL_TECH: Oh great, are you an airbus captain too?

Uh no. The difference between me and that guy is that I'm not trying to scare anyone. I personally believe that every union on the property has the right to vote "no" to anything, and it is ridiculous for guys like that A320 Captain to go around scaring people into changing their vote. The consequence of great union turmoil probably will be liqidation and that is nothing that anyone should really be scared about as we have known this for a few years now. I'm just saying that I hope people are prepared for the worst. After the initial shock and disruption in life, I would assume that people will find jobs eventually and life will go on with or without UAL.

spacewaitress: I'm not making assumptions about how you will vote. I don't even know you.

I was just trying to post direct information that I received that I thought might be interesting to some. Oh well. Back to lurking. Flame away, I'm done.

 

[spacewaitress]

"CHICAGO (Reuters) - Bankrupt United Airlines said on Friday it needs more labor cost cuts on top of any gains from terminating employee pensions and expects to move toward voiding its labor contracts in early November."

Moving toward is not the same as accomplishing.

This article establishes the timeline, as Bear already mentioned...see this
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/041015/airlines_united_2.html