Questions for any IAM-M member

[wrenchbender]

Chip,

To answer your question put yourself in our shoes.
Why would we vote yes to a proposal that would bring our pay to $10 to $12/PH below the industry average? thats 20k/25k per year.

Bottom line we are giving up over 100k each over the life of the contract including work rules, to (maybe) keep USAirways in business.

I and my fellow Mechanics would be better off to start over at a new carrier, or perhaps even a new industry.

I know it's a hard pill to swallow that mechanics are not willing to accept a substandard wage to keep those high paying pilot positions at USAirways.

Way I see it if you want to keep your 200k per year job, you make the sacrifice.

I can replace my income in a few years time.

We are licensed Professionals, yet treated like pond scum by the company and the IAM, aka idiots aganist mechanics.

I have 14 years of service and would prefer to see USAirways remain, they are just asking too much from us with nothing in return.

AMFA, the intelligent choice for aviation mechanics

Good luck to us all.



[]

 

[Formatman]

I would rather have the odds increased for poor management than to have the company provide appropriate compensation to keep good people----------------

Chip, name some good managers, please.....

 

[chipmunn]

Fortman:

Fortman asked: Chip, name some good managers, please.....

Chip answers: Ed Bular, Neal Cohen, Bruce Ashby, Ben Baldanza, Jerry Glass, Doug McKean, Chris Chimes, Dave Siegel, etc.

Chip

 

[chipmunn]

Hi Wrenchbender:

Wrenchbender said: Why would we vote yes to a proposal that would bring our pay to $10 to $12/PH below the industry average? thats 20k/25k per year.

Chip answers: What industry standards wages are today, which will likely be lowered if UAL files as well, have no bearing on what US Airways will pay. Simply put, this company is bankrupt and can not afford to pay you what you believe you are worth. According to the CLT Observer the company's IAM-M proposal would cut W-2 by 6.8 percent; therefore for a "20K/25K" cut per year at 6.8 percent would mean mechanics make over $300,00 per year. By my math, a 10 percent cut from a gross pay of $200K/$250K per year would equal a "20K/25K" cut.

Wrench said: Bottom line we are giving up over 100k each over the life of the contract including work rules, to (maybe) keep USAirways in business.

Wrench said: I and my fellow Mechanics would be better off to start over at a new carrier, or perhaps even a new industry.

Chip asks: Wrench, what major carrier is hiring mechanics?

Wrench answers: I know it's a hard pill to swallow that mechanics are not willing to accept a substandard wage to keep those high paying pilot positions at US Airways.

Chip comments: There is no shortage of mechanics who are willing to work for much less. America West, Continental, and every Regional airline have proved that. I doubt the judge will give you a better deal than Siegel because the DIP, emergence, and loan guarantee funds would cease to exist. Therefore, I expect the judge to agree with the company and impose a contract. At that point there could be some litigation, but we know at least 43 percent of the IAM voted to work for the company under the new contract. It's likely that a percentage who voted no would return to work as well. Could the company go out and hire replacements workers or subcontract out the work for the rest of the mechanics? Would the airline do this and force a lock out?

Wrench said: Way I see it if you want to keep your 200k per year job, you make the sacrifice.

Chip answers: Your comment is inaccurate and I do not make $200 per year from US Airways.

Chip concludes: In this economy there are many more unemployed mechanics than jobs, thus the IAM-M is sitting on the wrong side of the employment equaation, just like most workers.

Chip

 

[wrenchbender]

Chip,

Believe it or not the Charlotte observer has it all wrong.
We mechanics are not giving up 6.8 percent as reported.
We are weeks short of our parity adjustment of 13 percent.
We are forgoing a license adjustment of $.75/ph
loosing our 3.5 percent lump sum which is defered retro from the last contract.

We are also giving up one week of vacation for the duration of the contract, not one year like some.

In all our wage reduction is more like 23 percent.
Southwest airlines new agreement will pay an A&P $42 in 2005 and we will be at $30.

If USAirways should fail other carriers will be hiring to fill the void left behind.

This is not my choice of how our future unfolds but if we have to move on , so be it.

BTW, The Mechanics at UAL are not into consessions either
Been there done that.

Good luck to us all



[]

 

[Boomer]

Wrenchbender,

I'm glad to see someone post the real extent of the concession package offered to the IAM-M.

Good Luck

 

[repeet]

"Chip concludes: In this economy there are many more unemployed mechanics than jobs, thus the IAM-M is sitting on the wrong side of the employment equaation, just like most workers."

Hey Chip

The IAM-M leadership is on your side of the equation, it's membership isn't. The leadership has no idea how to squirm out of this one.

 

[chipmunn]

Repeet:

Repeet said: The IAM-M leadership is on your side of the equation, it's membership isn't. The leadership has no idea how to squirm out of this one.

Chip comments: Repeet, what people seem to not understand or refuse to accept are the questions I asked to start this thread. This is not a traditional RLA negotiation and but it might be better termed a discussion of the options available to meet the required labor expense cuts. Without the target cuts, the company will not meet the DIP/Emergence financing and loan guarantee agreements.

Without these liquidity and credit instruments, the company will likely liquidate. If the airline liquidates, the assets will be sold to other airlines. If this occurs there will likely not be employee job transfers because every major airline has furloughed employees in all job groups.

I believe the ocurt will understand the issue of granting the IAM a contract that does not meet the requirements of the investors (TPB, CSFB, & BOA) and the ATSB. Therefore, the court will likely side with the company, otherwise the airline will fail. If true, the only question is will the restructuring agreement be imposed or will the cuts be deeper?

For those who believe they can simply start over, the problem with that thought is supply and demand. There are many workers willing to work for less money and every major airline has employees furloughed, so I believe it is logical for those airlines who acquire assets to recall their employees to fly, work on, and dispatch our aircraft, versus taking US Airways' employees in a fragmentation or as new hires.

By the way, I understand former EAL IAM leader Charley Bryan now lives in a shack in Southeast Florida. I wonder if he would have done things different if he knew at the time how his life would have turned out?

Chip

 

[cavalier]

Chip,

It is VERY obvious you are a die hard company man with a take it or leave it attitude. Your comment on starting over: I have done so several times in my life time, and will do it again if necessary. You act as though U is the ONLY way people currently on the payroll can continue to exist, that we MUST stay here because there are NO options available. I listened to Dave closely when he gave both of his speeches, he also shares your attitude, which is: You mechanics have put all your time and effort into this career not just for the money, but the love of aviation. Since the economy is slow and your love of aviation is so intense, I just know you will stay, no matter how bad I squeeze you. In fact I am staking everything on it. Well guess what Chip and Dave, you are BOTH wrong. There is life beyond U and people are leaving for that life as I write this. Personally, I am crossed trained in an completely different field, only came to U for the money, which WAS better. Obviously the mechanics who MUST stay here, as you imply, sure mean a lot to you and Dave, if not, why have you been spending ALL your time trying to brain wash us into the companies way of thinking. Too bad Dave never considered that swinging a big hammer could bounce right back in his direction. Don‘t forget Newton‘s third law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Chip, take up hunting and fishing, something where you can get some sunlight to make you see things clearer, right now everything looks black and white to you. Also Chip: I am done posting replies to you, it’s a senseless waste of time.[]

 

[Steiner]

It's true. Some of our talented layed off employees went to WN. Their gain, our loss.

 

[WNjetdoc]

----------------
On 9/4/2002 11:30:14 PM

Chip,

Believe it or not the Charlotte observer has it all wrong.
We mechanics are not giving up 6.8 percent as reported.
We are weeks short of our parity adjustment of 13 percent.
We are forgoing a license adjustment of $.75/ph
loosing our 3.5 percent lump sum which is defered retro from the last contract.

We are also giving up one week of vacation for the duration of the contract, not one year like some.

In all our wage reduction is more like 23 percent.
Southwest airlines new agreement will pay an A&P $42 in 2005 and we will be at $30.

If USAirways should fail other carriers will be hiring to fill the void left behind.

This is not my choice of how our future unfolds but if we have to move on , so be it.

BTW, The Mechanics at UAL are not into consessions either
Been there done that.

Good luck to us all



[]
----------------

Wow dude, its now thurs and we here at WN do not even know what our contract is yet. I'm serious, we have heard rumros but until the stock option thing is done we will not hear anything....Also, Chips says: "What airline is hiring?" I say: "WN is."

 

[chipmunn]

Cav:

I agree it's time to stop debating because we have a fundamental difference of opinion. What I find interesting is that with 40 posts in this thread and over 2000 views, not one IAM-M member can answer any of the questions I've asked.

Chip

 

[Steiner]

"By voting no and understanding you will be summoned to appear against this motion, what is your motivation? For one to vote no, I believe the voter must believe they can get a better deal. Would you explain how this would now occur?"

Are you sure this didn't get answered? Or did you just not like the answer?

 

[Steiner]

"By the way, I understand former EAL IAM leader Charley Bryan now lives in a shack in Southeast Florida. I wonder if he would have done things different if he knew at the time how his life would have turned out?

Chip"

I haven't run across any EAL mechanics where I work who would have done anything other than what they did. Do you think your group could have given enough concessions to Frank Lorenzo to satisfy him? How many give-backs until you draw the line?

You also seem to have some odd notions about mechanics. Clue time. It is hard to get another mechanic job when all of your potential employers find out that your job skills consist of punching in, drinking coffee and solving crossword puzzles. For the folks who actually chase wires, drill aluminum, rebuild engines, etc. there is still a good market, in and outside of aviation. Most of us in the maintenance classification have seen this with our laid off co-workers. If these people with actual talent, the one with job options, leave at your suggestion, what are you left with? Are you sure you want sheep?

 

[WNjetdoc]

----------------
On 9/5/2002 9:53:09 AM

It's true. Some of our talented layed off employees went to WN. Their gain, our loss.
----------------

Yes Steiner, I will back up what you said. I know in my station we have gained quite a few former U AMTs, and these guys are highly skilled. Gotta do what you gotta do.