Question for Garfield

[kirkpatrick]

Bill, the best thing to do is to forget open time. Some trading is possible, but AA has an entirely different view of OT that we have to get used to. I had a turn go green on Feb 15th, but it wasn't one I wanted to drop. I had a two-day go green for a few hours back in Jan, but once again I wanted to keep it.

At AA open time is basically for the AVBL people and reserves. That's why we can't trade the day before; it's intended for the AVBL's.

MK

 

[nbmcg01]

I only work LGA TDY 1 day a week.

One of our most beloved cs-ers was also called Garfield..who knows..lol You may become the same.

 

[nbmcg01]

Bill, the best thing to do is to forget open time. Some trading is possible, but AA has an entirely different view of OT that we have to get used to. I had a turn go green on Feb 15th, but it wasn't one I wanted to drop. I had a two-day go green for a few hours back in Jan, but once again I wanted to keep it.

At AA open time is basically for the AVBL people and reserves. That's why we can't trade the day before; it's intended for the AVBL's.

MK

That would be one of the top negotiation items I would address.

 

[L1011Ret]

Bill, the best thing to do is to forget open time. Some trading is possible, but AA has an entirely different view of OT that we have to get used to. I had a turn go green on Feb 15th, but it wasn't one I wanted to drop. I had a two-day go green for a few hours back in Jan, but once again I wanted to keep it.
At AA open time is basically for the AVBL people and reserves. That's why we can't trade the day before; it's intended for the AVBL's.
MK

Thanks Mark, I've only seen green once for a short period of time. Carol wanted to trade a nice 2 day for 2 turns today but no luck. They were several days out. Be well Bill


As for negotiations the juniors are probably going to be looking for crumbs falling from the seniors table...

 

[kirkpatrick]

That would be one of the top negotiation items I would address.

We have to remember that the AA system developed over decades and a dozen different contracts just as ours did. At TWA we could trade with or pick up OT up until an hour before the setup period in which the trip would be given to a reserve. Any change would have a domino effect on the next rule, the next and the one after that. I'd hate to see AVBL go away; lots of people, myself included, like it, although I'm not flying it right now.

This reminds me of the reaction I get when I mention how strange it is that we only get four days to bid. They look at me crazy, "What's wrong with that?" They don't perceive it as a problem. Allocations are done way early in the month and the pilots get more time to bid. Giving us even six days would be a help but the FA force simply doesn't see it as a problem, so no one tries to "fix" it.

I do think reserve is the area which needs the most work, and lots could be done to make it more palatable without costing the company anything other than a little reprogramming money.

MK

 

[Skymess]

Bill, the best thing to do is to forget open time. Some trading is possible, but AA has an entirely different view of OT that we have to get used to. I had a turn go green on Feb 15th, but it wasn't one I wanted to drop. I had a two-day go green for a few hours back in Jan, but once again I wanted to keep it.

At AA open time is basically for the AVBL people and reserves. That's why we can't trade the day before; it's intended for the AVBL's.

MK

Open time is definitely very useful for AVBL and also MU and OPT II.

You seem to be a pretty clever guy. There's ways around open time for trip trading. You just need to get the hang of making it work for you. 😉 Experimenting is the way to figure it out.

As for changing it in contract talks, there's ALWAYS room for plenty of improvement for TTOT. That's for sure.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Carol wanted to trade a nice 2 day for 2 turns today but no luck. They were several days out. Be well Bill

That's an area where I'd like to see a bit more flexibility. At TWA we had "class A" and "class B" trade restrictions which were invoked when the company couldn't allow any additional openings on a particular day or days. I see no reason why better OT trading couldn't be accomplished while still allowing the company to keep a handle on things at critical times.

MK

 

[Skymess]

This reminds me of the reaction I get when I mention how strange it is that we only get four days to bid. They look at me crazy, "What's wrong with that?" They don't perceive it as a problem. Allocations are done way early in the month and the pilots get more time to bid. Giving us even six days would be a help but the FA force simply doesn't see it as a problem, so no one tries to "fix" it.

MK

I don't want more time to bid. I do want my bids done earlier in the month.

I'm a bit on the impatient side and, because of that, I usually bid at 11:30 pm 30 minutes before they close. That way I have less time to wait before they are out!

Then I spend the entire next day obsessively calling AVRS until it says " flight attendant ******, for the month of *** at *** you have been awarded selection number ****. Please call back later for your final bid award". Then I excitedly look it up and realize I once again held cr*p and the excitement wears off instantaneously and I start plotting and scheming how I can rearrange it. 🙄

 

[kirkpatrick]

I don't want more time to bid.

See what I mean?

MK

 

[Skymess]

See what I mean?

MK

LOL. One of the things my friends and I who came from other airlines hated when we got here was the "we're American Airlines and we do it like this" comments and attitude.

What can I say? I have been indoctrinated.

 

[L1011Ret]

I don't want more time to bid. I do want my bids done earlier in the month.

I'm a bit on the impatient side and, because of that, I usually bid at 11:30 pm 30 minutes before they close. That way I have less time to wait before they are out!

Then I spend the entire next day obsessively calling AVRS until it says " flight attendant ******, for the month of *** at *** you have been awarded selection number ****. Please call back later for your final bid award". Then I excitedly look it up and realize I once again held cr*p and the excitement wears off instantaneously and I start plotting and scheming how I can rearrange it. 🙄

our e


Your expectations are too high...if you repeatedly hold crap, then expect crap. Then when something good happens you'll be doing cartwheels in joy!

 

[IORFA]

Mark
Seriously, WHY would you want more time for bids. I am with Chris, lets do it earlier in the month. Everyone knows roughly when bidding starts and ends. It doesn't change too much month to month. You should hear the Bit$hing when they screw bids up and make changes where they need to extend the bidding window. All I can say is WOW. Only problem I see with earlier bidding is that F/A's married to pilots are used to getting one bid finalized and then know what to bid to fit nicely with their spouses schedule. I say that is their problem to work around not the majorities problem. That is what Open Time, High Board and Trip Trade services are for.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Mark
Seriously, WHY would you want more time for bids. I am with Chris, lets do it earlier in the month.

All in what you're used to I guess. Our bids used to open on the 10th and close on the 20th, and were available in the computer by the 8th or 9th. Last month, for example, I had a bunch of trips during the bidding window and hardly had time to give bidding the attention it deserved.

I see no reason why bidding couldn't be moved up a couple of days and also have the window extended a day or two. It's practically a no cost item.

MK

 

[IORFA]

I suggest for every 2 days that bids open earlier that they closes 1 day sooner. That way we both get something out of it. I.E. 16-21, turns to 14-20. I also don't understand why bids close at 0001 on the 21st, instead of 2359 on the 20th. Every once and awhile, you hear about someone forgetting. It just seems that the days on the top of the bid packet should be the actual days of the closing, not 1 minute into the last day. I klnow it is a petty complaint, just something I never figured out.

 

[jimntx]

Last month, for example, I had a bunch of trips during the bidding window and hardly had time to give bidding the attention it deserved.

MK

I suggest using the Online Bidding feature on the Flight Service website. You put in parameters--days you want off, length of trips, layover cities, sign-in times, etc--and it sorts the bids accordingly assigning them a numerical score based on how closely the line fits your criteria. You can then move, rearrange, delete however you want. Also, the lines are available in the Online Bidding one or two days before paper bidsheets are available in base! If bidding opens at 0001 on 17Mar, the lines are available on the Online Bidding on the 15th (usually). I have BidPro on my computer but I never use it anymore, because Online Bidding has a great feature that BidPro does not.

Say you prefer to fly #1. You can specify Pos. #1 as Primary on a particular (or every) a/c, and then, 2,3,4,5 etc. as secondary. Or your secondaries might be 3,4,2. Online Bidding will bid every single line in your final list, position 1 first then re-bid the same lines, in the same order for the other positions. You can specify R1 on the last Pos #1 bid, and if you do not hold any Pos #1 on your own, the bid program will go back to the top of the list and see if you can hold any of them on relief, Pos #1 before it starts looking at other positions. AND, you can mix lines and equipment and the computer will keep it all straight.

I finished my bidding for February in less than 30 minutes. Since I am on reserve this month and have vacation, I told the program I wanted to maximize vacation pay. I am getting paid for 6 or my 9 days. The best I could have done is 7 of 9.

By the way, my friend who is a f/a at Frontier knew her April schedule by March 4th!