InclusiveScope
Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 55
- 0
The PSA pilots have now formed an RJDC type organization. ALPA scope policy failures continue.
http://www.psapilotalliance.8m.com/
http://www.psapilotalliance.8m.com/
Psa Pilot Alliance
- Thread starter InclusiveScope
- Start date
passed_over
Member
- Mar 12, 2003
- 72
- 0
its about time that the PSA pilots woke up and realized the screwing that they are getting from ALPA maybe it is finally time that you will join forces with your fellow W/O pilots and atteck the disease, mainline ALPA together instead of on your own
CaptianBoomer
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2004
- 160
- 0
Folks:
Lets face some facts here.....U ALPA is not the enemy. I submit that if U ALPA didn't give up their pensions, PSA wouldn't have ANY shiny new jets to fly, let alone 90 of the buggers. Another fact. If the next round of givebacks are not proffered soon, it could be curtains for U GROUP, which includes PSA.
What do you think the U pilots should do? Give you every jet the company can get for you to fly and furlough more mainline pilots? Another fact, Mesa, PSA, and the other carriers U contracts with are all hiring pilots. All these new hires are effectively taking a flying job that used to belong to someone else, at a fifth of the price. Is is so bad that U ALPA tried to negotiate something that at least keeps their boys in the cockpit? And the 70 seaters were never intended for anyone except a mainline pilot. The mere fact that PSA pilots will get to fly them is a concession on the part of the U pilots. When the 90 seaters show up, you will effectively be flying a mainline jet. Management has just turned over the deck of cards and is now dealing from the bottom.
So complain all you like about how bad you are being screwed while your airline triples in size and you have to stomach the 150 or so U pilots who will end up working for PSA. In the end, it just makes you look ungrateful how good you have it vis a vis the other airline pilots in this country. Ask someone who flies for Piedmont or Allegheny if they would like to change places.
Boomer
Lets face some facts here.....U ALPA is not the enemy. I submit that if U ALPA didn't give up their pensions, PSA wouldn't have ANY shiny new jets to fly, let alone 90 of the buggers. Another fact. If the next round of givebacks are not proffered soon, it could be curtains for U GROUP, which includes PSA.
What do you think the U pilots should do? Give you every jet the company can get for you to fly and furlough more mainline pilots? Another fact, Mesa, PSA, and the other carriers U contracts with are all hiring pilots. All these new hires are effectively taking a flying job that used to belong to someone else, at a fifth of the price. Is is so bad that U ALPA tried to negotiate something that at least keeps their boys in the cockpit? And the 70 seaters were never intended for anyone except a mainline pilot. The mere fact that PSA pilots will get to fly them is a concession on the part of the U pilots. When the 90 seaters show up, you will effectively be flying a mainline jet. Management has just turned over the deck of cards and is now dealing from the bottom.
So complain all you like about how bad you are being screwed while your airline triples in size and you have to stomach the 150 or so U pilots who will end up working for PSA. In the end, it just makes you look ungrateful how good you have it vis a vis the other airline pilots in this country. Ask someone who flies for Piedmont or Allegheny if they would like to change places.
Boomer
Where was the PSA Pilot Alliance when Allegheny and Piedmont were left out of the future plans of US Airways Group?
I don't recall the PSA Pilots crying foul when it was announced that they were the only wholly-owned getting replacement aircraft for their retiring props, while PDT and ALG were left out in the cold to die.
Now is the time to stick up for the little Guy???? I don't believe any PSA pilot has the credentials to cry out for Justice now.
Real pilot unity means all for one and one for all. PSA thought they had theirs and basically said screw the rest. But now they don't have it anymore and decide to cry foul. Hypocrisy at it's most self-interested.
I don't recall the PSA Pilots crying foul when it was announced that they were the only wholly-owned getting replacement aircraft for their retiring props, while PDT and ALG were left out in the cold to die.
Now is the time to stick up for the little Guy???? I don't believe any PSA pilot has the credentials to cry out for Justice now.
Real pilot unity means all for one and one for all. PSA thought they had theirs and basically said screw the rest. But now they don't have it anymore and decide to cry foul. Hypocrisy at it's most self-interested.
CaptianBoomer said:
Well said boomer, it just amazes me that some psa pilots can be whining about the "screwing" that they are getting from U alpa.. The PSA group is the ONLY group that is expanding and thier new jets are because of U alpa and the consessions from the mainline group.
passed over, you need to open your eyes, look at you brothers at PDT and ALG and thank U alpa. Or how about a reality check like the 2000 U pilots that were furloughed then you can get a taste of the real world and realize how good you have got it.
Bluestreak
Advanced
- May 20, 2003
- 184
- 0
I read the first three sentences of Boomers's post and I got so angry that my head started to spin. Some of you mainline guys are clueless. You could have saved your pensions and saved your furloughs if you had some foresight.
Didn't you notice all through the 90's when Comair and CoEx were stealing your markets? I saw it every morning when I'd show for work in staions like CAE and BTV. U would have a rundown F100 sitting on the ramp, two dash 8's, and one Do328. Comair would have two brand new CRJs. When you looked at the departure board, Comair would have a departure every two hours. US Airways would have one depature at an ungodly early hour and then nothing till noon. If you were a business traveler would you rather fly on U at 5:30 am or have the option of Comair at 5:30, 8:15, 10:30, and 12:00? Why didn't U get RJs to compete with this threat? The mainline ALPA scope clause is the answer.
Also in 1999, the MECs of the three wholly owneds came to the mainline MEC with a flow through agreement. This agreement provided for the flow up of WO pilots and the flush down of mainline pilots in the event of forlough. You guys turned this down! Your MEC told ours, "What if I have a son or military buddy that wants to get hired at US Airways? I don't want him to have to work at Express first." Now when the bad times come, (bad times that you helped to cause with your insane wages, work rules, and scope clause) you come down to PSA and steal our seniority.
Don't revert to your blame management BS either. You are all adults, and you should have seen U was running off the edge of a cliff. Why didn't you give a vote of no confidence to Wolfe? Was it because he gave into everyone of your rediculous demands? You knew the only reason he gave you the most restrictive scope clause was because he was planning on selling you to United. The moment that United deal failed, you should have been smart enough to release the scope clause.
The good side of this is not all mainline pilots are pompous and self centered like many of the posters on this board. I've met a lot of the J4J guys here at PSA and they are great guys. I wish they were on the mainline MEC rather than furloughed.
Didn't you notice all through the 90's when Comair and CoEx were stealing your markets? I saw it every morning when I'd show for work in staions like CAE and BTV. U would have a rundown F100 sitting on the ramp, two dash 8's, and one Do328. Comair would have two brand new CRJs. When you looked at the departure board, Comair would have a departure every two hours. US Airways would have one depature at an ungodly early hour and then nothing till noon. If you were a business traveler would you rather fly on U at 5:30 am or have the option of Comair at 5:30, 8:15, 10:30, and 12:00? Why didn't U get RJs to compete with this threat? The mainline ALPA scope clause is the answer.
Also in 1999, the MECs of the three wholly owneds came to the mainline MEC with a flow through agreement. This agreement provided for the flow up of WO pilots and the flush down of mainline pilots in the event of forlough. You guys turned this down! Your MEC told ours, "What if I have a son or military buddy that wants to get hired at US Airways? I don't want him to have to work at Express first." Now when the bad times come, (bad times that you helped to cause with your insane wages, work rules, and scope clause) you come down to PSA and steal our seniority.
Don't revert to your blame management BS either. You are all adults, and you should have seen U was running off the edge of a cliff. Why didn't you give a vote of no confidence to Wolfe? Was it because he gave into everyone of your rediculous demands? You knew the only reason he gave you the most restrictive scope clause was because he was planning on selling you to United. The moment that United deal failed, you should have been smart enough to release the scope clause.
The good side of this is not all mainline pilots are pompous and self centered like many of the posters on this board. I've met a lot of the J4J guys here at PSA and they are great guys. I wish they were on the mainline MEC rather than furloughed.
CaptianBoomer
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2004
- 160
- 0
Bluestreak:
Yeah, you're right. We should have just gave up on the scope clause and what exactly would have been the result? The same thing that we have now!!! Hundreds of furloughed U mainline pilots and hundreds of new hire PSA/Other pilots flying jets on our routes and our passengers while we watch from the outside.
If you are so willing to help out, why not give up your job for the cause?
Friend, you are damn lucky we didn't sign up for the "flow through". There wouldn't be any wholly owned pilots standing after 1879 guys tried to flow back to a wholly owned job. Then you wouldn't have any of your pilots flying jets, let alone a 70 and possible 90 seat equipment.
BTW, if you cannot figure out that poor management put U where it is today post 9/11, then you need a vision waiver from the FAA.
Boomer
Yeah, you're right. We should have just gave up on the scope clause and what exactly would have been the result? The same thing that we have now!!! Hundreds of furloughed U mainline pilots and hundreds of new hire PSA/Other pilots flying jets on our routes and our passengers while we watch from the outside.
If you are so willing to help out, why not give up your job for the cause?
Friend, you are damn lucky we didn't sign up for the "flow through". There wouldn't be any wholly owned pilots standing after 1879 guys tried to flow back to a wholly owned job. Then you wouldn't have any of your pilots flying jets, let alone a 70 and possible 90 seat equipment.
BTW, if you cannot figure out that poor management put U where it is today post 9/11, then you need a vision waiver from the FAA.
Boomer
You want to get mad at someone, feel free to discuss things with your not so bright MEC over at PSA for starters...
Selfish is one thing, but being a bunch of suckers is a whole new level of bad for YOUR leadership. BTW, Did you get a vote...? No, ummm... Why? Here is a question for you PSA guys, the LAST time they went ahead and decided your future for you without ratification, what exactly did you do about it back then...? Could not have been much as your PSA MEC skipped ratification once again.
You do not like the new deal..? TOUGH. You did nothing earlier about letting them decide things for you, so you deserve to get whatever comes your way now.
Whaaaaaa, sniff sniff. Whaaaa, I got robbed, whaaa. Pu-lease... Grow up. No one wants to hear how you have to "share" your senority, trust me. Esp those from ALG/PDT that have no choice but to move right seat at MDA to KEEP our jobs.
You Blue streakers act like Mesa, then you are going to get treated like Mesa by the company, ALPA, and your own MEC. Reap what you have sown buddy, reap what you have sown...
But, other than that, have a nice day.
Selfish is one thing, but being a bunch of suckers is a whole new level of bad for YOUR leadership. BTW, Did you get a vote...? No, ummm... Why? Here is a question for you PSA guys, the LAST time they went ahead and decided your future for you without ratification, what exactly did you do about it back then...? Could not have been much as your PSA MEC skipped ratification once again.
You do not like the new deal..? TOUGH. You did nothing earlier about letting them decide things for you, so you deserve to get whatever comes your way now.
Whaaaaaa, sniff sniff. Whaaaa, I got robbed, whaaa. Pu-lease... Grow up. No one wants to hear how you have to "share" your senority, trust me. Esp those from ALG/PDT that have no choice but to move right seat at MDA to KEEP our jobs.
You Blue streakers act like Mesa, then you are going to get treated like Mesa by the company, ALPA, and your own MEC. Reap what you have sown buddy, reap what you have sown...
But, other than that, have a nice day.
BoredToDeath
Advanced
- Oct 19, 2002
- 119
- 0
What the kind Captain and the rest of the Mainline "gods" that share his thoughts and opinions fail to understand, is that the Mighty Mainline IS A WHOLLY-OWNED, just like ALG, PDT, and PSA. Don't belive me? Read the financials.
Your sense of entitlement is disgusting and unwarranted, and through it all will only lead to the demise of our own union.
Boomer, the PSA pilots already did this. Or are the J4J pilots not holding a Captain position at PSA out of senority? But to top it off we can now congradulate you on your new well deserved quality of life improvement at PSA! You've certainly earned it. :down:
Tbone,
The issues between PSA, PDT, and ALG are alot deeper then most know. None of us can claim "not" to have done or tried to do backdoor deals, none of us.
But I certainly was'nt expecting them to try and do what was tried a few weeks ago. It just seemed lower than anything that was tried before.
Your sense of entitlement is disgusting and unwarranted, and through it all will only lead to the demise of our own union.
Boomer, the PSA pilots already did this. Or are the J4J pilots not holding a Captain position at PSA out of senority? But to top it off we can now congradulate you on your new well deserved quality of life improvement at PSA! You've certainly earned it. :down:
Tbone,
The issues between PSA, PDT, and ALG are alot deeper then most know. None of us can claim "not" to have done or tried to do backdoor deals, none of us.
But I certainly was'nt expecting them to try and do what was tried a few weeks ago. It just seemed lower than anything that was tried before.
BoredToDeath
Advanced
- Oct 19, 2002
- 119
- 0
Rico,
Are you for real? Have you one clue on the subject at all or just running your mouth? From reading your post, I'd say if anyone had to grow up, its you.
Are you for real? Have you one clue on the subject at all or just running your mouth? From reading your post, I'd say if anyone had to grow up, its you.
CaptianBoomer
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2004
- 160
- 0
PSA'ers:
If you can't understand why your whining is ruffling a few feathers, then it is a waste of time trying to explain it to you.
Boomer
If you can't understand why your whining is ruffling a few feathers, then it is a waste of time trying to explain it to you.
Boomer
Bluestreak
Advanced
- May 20, 2003
- 184
- 0
Boomer,
Do you know of anyone interested in selling a condo on Lake Norman? I'm relocating to CLT soon and am looking for a place. I've heard it's a buyers market down there right now.
Do you know of anyone interested in selling a condo on Lake Norman? I'm relocating to CLT soon and am looking for a place. I've heard it's a buyers market down there right now.
CaptianBoomer
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2004
- 160
- 0
Bluestreak:
I don't know much about the housing market on Lake Norman, but I will bet it is NOT a buyers market.
Boomer
I don't know much about the housing market on Lake Norman, but I will bet it is NOT a buyers market.
Boomer
