Psa Files For Bigger Birds

[Light Years]

I'm not talking about myself. I have a job.

Many US Airways FAs have applied at our wholly-owneds on thier own accord. Some have been hired, many have not. It goes without saying that a similar job (express FA positions are alot different, but they are still FA positions) should be offered to people with four years with the company that you have no use for at your mainline, rather than hiring off the street. Its common sense to hire back the people you laid off by no fault of thier own.

Why did we used to have nearly 11,000 flight attendants and now will have less than 5000? Because we had all of those other aircraft- F100s, MD80s, 732s, DC9s. They are gone and replaced with RJs, and now RJS similar to what was mainline. CR7s and EMBs smell the look and act and fit around the same amount as a Fokker, BAC111, BAe146, DC9... we cant do anything about the scope now but at least offer these jobs (horrible pay scales and all) to your own flight attendants. Isnt that who we are replacing here? Mainline F/As? At MAA we have been given the bottom barrel industry pay scales and recieve pretty much nothing for having been mainline but your place on the seniority list. There is no added expense (infact, putting a new aircraft at another carrier, and paying for training from scratch is another added expense.)

I see it as nothing but the usual slap in the face. This company wants rid of the mainline work group, junior and senior. They want rid of the AFA. They want new people who dont know any better and would be making minimum wage anyway.

Why do the pilots have J4J? What was stopping them from applying? Why do we have MAA? I'm confused as to how anyone could not see why we would be angry.

Bring on Project Roam, or Virgin USA, or one of the other major airlines when they hire again in a few years. There's a whole airline worth of high quality inflight crews ready to proudly represent a real airline.

It must be getting to a point where there are more pissed off ex-US Airways employees than active ones. Thats the best marketing I can think of for airlines like Southwest.

:down:

 

[flyin2low]

"Why do the pilots have J4J? What was stopping them from applying?"

Some pilots on the APL have applied and been hired into the wholly owneds. That way they can take the better of both evils when the time comes. I suppose that the ones who went to ALG and PDT will not have that choice in the end........

 

[Bluestreaking]

Itrade, do you have the link to the DOT filing?

 

[DorkDriver]

Hey Light Years. What do you mean "express FA positions are alot different, but they are still FA positions".

 

[diverboy]

Southwest is still hiring flight attendants.. i've seen at least 2 classes graduate in the past 2 months, maybe more.

 

[Light Years]

Dork-

I've done both and can tell you some mainline folks would never make it at Express, and vice versa. If you follow my posts at all you'll see that I always include our wholly owned Express employees as part of the company, and would like to see them thrive and the contract carriers off the property. Please dont try to make it look like I'm saying something I'm not. I used to be an Express F/A.

There is a world of difference between a flight attendant on a Dornier 328 and on an Airbus 330. There are a multitude of differences in responsibility, service, and emergency procedures, and unique challenges to both. But they are both positions within the company under the same classification. Aside from height there is not anything stopping one from the other. There should be the option of an Express job for those flight attendants that are interested.

Over 50% of our flight attendants are now furloughed, the most junior has 1999 seniority. If all voluntary furloughees returned the most junior would have a hire date somewhere in the late 1980's. I bet plenty of those folks would be happy to join you over at PSA. Dont start with the pilots and who has done whatnot to each other, we are talking about flight attendants. The mainline flight attendants have always supported thier AFA brothers and sisters at the three subsidiaries.

I'm done arguing this, I guess no one else agrees with me. Considering you know what its like to have your job replaced (contract carriers), you would think you'd sympathize. I'm not advocating taking away anyones job, I'm talking about new hires. Hiring a single flight attendant anywhere within the US Airways Group when you have 5000 of them laid off is just plain wrong, end of story. <_<

diverboy- Thank you, I'm aware of other airlines hiring status. Many furloughees have gone to other airlines, some would rather wait for a major airline (either US recall or the others in a few years) or just do something else. What we are discussing here is the principle, not who's hiring and who's not.

 

[DorkDriver]

I'm not a FA, so I just wanted to know what differences you think exsist. As a pilot, there isn't any difference between what we do at PSA and what is done at mainline. Safety is #1 from start to finish. As a FA how is your level of service or safety any different?

 

[Light Years]

How are the levels of service different? Are you serious? Have you ever been on an international flight? That one is pretty obvious. Serving several course meals, selling duty free, and operating entertainment systems is more service than pulling out the cart to give out pretzels and Cokes to thirty people.

On the other hand, catering, stocking and cleaning one's own aircraft (and I mean the actual cleaning after every leg that Express FAs do, not the tidying ML FAs do in some stations) and performing security checks would be foreign to a mainliner. Express service is simple but must be performed in often bumpier conditions and in a short amount of time while maintaining a safe atmosphere, which is not easy.

Mainline FAs have considerably more medical and emergency training. MUCH more. An Express aircraft can get on the ground quicker than one that is over the ocean, for example. This is why mainline flights have equiptment like AEDs, Tuff Cuffs, medical and passenger oxygen, and EEMKs. Not to mention ditching equiptment such as life rafts, flares etc. Express FAs do not even have a slide to arm, not to mention learn how to deploy one, detatch one, and even move one from one door to another.

Mainline FAs must learn to work with a team of anything from 2 others to 14 others and coordinate and follow rank. Express FAs must take sole responsibility for the cabin and often multitask.

The level of safety and professionalism is the same. The flight attendants of AL/PI/PS are the same caliber safety professionals as the US ones. The level of service and training, however are miles apart because of the type of flying and aircraft.

Shuttle America, one of our affiliate Express carriers operates a single aircraft type, the 30 seat SAAB turboprop. They train thier FAs in nine days (you read that correctly, NINE DAYS!). PSA until recently had one aircraft type, the 30 seat Dornier turboprop. However, thier training is three weeks- obviously much more thorough and in-depth.

US Airways takes six weeks, and that doesnt include international, which presently takes additional training.

I dont think differences exist, I KNOW they do as I have done both. There are positives and negatives to both. If you talk to any mainline FA that started at Express (or any of the mainliners that are there now), they will tell you the same thing. It would be great if you could do both, do a trip on the 757 to LAX one week, and then to TYS on the CRJ the next. This would be the ideal.

Again, if you follow my posts you'll see that I believe W/O FA should flow thru to MDA/ML if they choose as they bring with them experience with our customers and brand.

 

[N628AU]

There should not be one off the street employee hired at any of the wholly owned until all mainline and wholly owned furloughees are given the opportunity. To put a 70 jet at PSA instead of MDA and staff it with off the street employees is a slap in the face to everyone that was dangled that soft landing carrot. Jets 4 Jobs should have been in every renegotiated contract, for all work groups. I credit ALPA for at least having that vision.

 

[xoxo]

I also think there is a difference between express f/a's and mainline. I used to work for ALG and was furloughed not so long ago from U...and it took a little while to get used to working with other f/a's. I was so used to working alone. It is alot easier at express in one sense..but on the other hand it could be alot more difficult. Because you were alone..we had alot of responsibilty being the only one. At mainline it was nice to have other f/a's there to back you up if there was a problem... there was food to deal with on mainline unlike express where it was all drinks. They are completely different jobs. Yes, we all are flight attendants, but, it is different in alot of ways. I worked 3 years at express and left there at the same pay rate that I started at U. There was a reason that express is paid less. When I went to U I found out why...they are different jobs as a flight attendant...different aircraft...different training..different eveything. Express flight attendants would be shocked at all the emergency training required of the mainline f/a's. I'm certainly not putting down express by any means, but, it is different. So, I completely agree with Light Years on everything he/she was saying.

 

[ITRADE]

Interestingly we have not heard from PitBull on the topic as to why AFA did not provide an alternate work arrangement for its furloughed FAs....

 

[jack mama]

diverboy,
LUV might be hiring, but not any ex-US Airways employees. I heard that is the standing order over there.

 

[Bluestreaking]

Itrade, where's that link to the DOT filing?

Thanks,
Bluestreaking

 

[DorkDriver]

Light Year. Thanks for your explanation. I just came back from MUC and upgraded to Envoy. I was impressed with the level of service until the last 15 minutes of the flight. Instead of preparing the cabin for arrival the FAs were fiddling around with their own carryons and luggage. When the plane touched down the FAs in the forward cabin were not in their jumpseats, but standing behind the forward center bulkhead. During landing the Envoy cabin was mess with isles clogged with passenger carryons, blankets, and other inflight service items srung about. I've seen the same event on a several MESA flights during the arrival too...

On the other hand I've had great friendly service on lots of domestic flights on both mainline and express. All I am trying to say is everyone has their good/bad days. In my opinion, and I am not trying to tell you how to do your job, everyone needs to provide the best level of service we can with what we have to work with. If its a three course meal great, if its pretzels and coke so be it.

I am 100% in support of hiring furloughed Group employees to fill any new positions that are created by the expansion created by the RJs at PSA. The AFA didn't negotiate a "soft landing" the way ALPA did for its group. MDA is a division of mainline and should be worked by mainline employees, PSA is a separate company so some kind of screening process should be used before anyone is hired. If any of our FAs wanted to go to MDA or Mainline they would have to interview, why should it be different for anyone else?

 

[A Baby Ate My Dingo]

I am 100% in support of hiring furloughed Group employees to fill any new positions that are created by the expansion created by the RJs at PSA. The AFA didn't negotiate a "soft landing" the way ALPA did for its group. MDA is a division of mainline and should be worked by mainline employees, PSA is a separate company so some kind of screening process should be used before anyone is hired. If any of our FAs wanted to go to MDA or Mainline they would have to interview, why should it be different for anyone else?

How many FAs would be willing to reapply and fly out and backs for a lowish salary??