Psa 70 Seat And Loa 91 Update

Sep 1, 2002
55
0
ALPA DEMANDS ALL PSA RJ-700’s BE FLOWN BY MAINLINE PILOTS

On April 30th, the PSA Master Executive Council (MEC) reported that PSA Management had made a “surpriseâ€￾ proposal that would require that all of PSA’s RJ-700’s be crewed solely by furloughed US Airways mainline pilots. According to at least one report, ALPA also said that management’s proposal came as a surprise to some of its PSA pilot-representatives because ALPA was not “actively engagedâ€￾ in any negotiations.

But unfortunately for the PSA pilots, ALPA is downplaying its role in crafting “management’sâ€￾ demands. As the RJDC reported in our April 4th update, documents published more than a month ago by the US Airways MEC reference a pre-existing agreement-in-principle entitled “Attachment ‘C’ Principles to be included in US Airways/PSA Four Party SJ Agreement.â€￾ Likewise, sections in the proposed mainline “Consolidated Small Jet Agreementâ€￾ state that the placement of additional RJ-700’s will be subject to “staffing, pay and seniority for bidding procedures to be agreed by the Association and the Company.â€￾

Therefore, there can be no doubt that management’s “requestâ€￾ was the direct result of ALPA’s mainline bargaining demands and thus hardly a “surpriseâ€￾ to ALPA’s officials. Events at PSA continue to illustrate the ill-affects caused by ALPA’s predatory mainline bargaining as it becomes increasingly obvious that PSA’s pilots aren’t really bargaining with management -- but against their own union. Furthermore, ALPA’s use of management to make proxy demands against the union’s own members constitutes a gross neglect of ALPA’s duties to the PSA pilots if not an outright deception.

ALPA’s apparent double-dealing and its refusal to put an end to predatory bargaining are precisely why an increasing number of ALPA’s “regionalâ€￾ members have looked to the courts for protection against their own union. Any US Airways Express pilot who desires additional information should contact the Pilots for Fair Representation via their web site at the link provided below.

Related Links: www.rjdefense.com/2004/loa91.pdf

http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com


ALPA’s “BRAND SCOPEâ€￾ Initiatives Prove Farcical as US Air Pilots Ratify LOA 91

On May 10th, ALPA announced that the US Airways pilots had ratified the new Consolidated Small Jet Agreement (LOA-91) by a 3 to1 margin. According to ALPA, the agreement gives management more “flexibilityâ€￾ in deploying small jets in greater numbers at US Airway’s affiliates in order to protect the financing. In championing the agreement, ALPA also stated that the new agreement would help prevent the potential “lossâ€￾ of Jets for Jobs positions.

But for the third time in two years, ALPA has “locked-outâ€￾ its “regionalâ€￾ members at US Airways as it again unilaterally imposes a multitude of special terms and conditions on a take it or leave it basis. As the RJDC has repeatedly warned, ALPA’s “Brand Scopeâ€￾ initiative is little more than a political smokescreen intended to obscure ALPA’s predatory mainline practices.

The true ugliness of ALPA’s actions will be readily apparent when thousands of ALPA’s “regionalâ€￾ members are told they must accept ALPA’s mainline terms “as isâ€￾ or the new aircraft on which their futures depend will be diverted elsewhere—with ALPA’s blessings.

Related Link: www.rjdefense.com/2004/loa91_codeaphones.pdf
 
Inclusive Scope babbled....

...."The true ugliness of ALPA’s actions will be readily apparent when thousands of ALPA’s “regional†members are told they must accept ALPA’s mainline terms “as is†or the new aircraft on which their futures depend will be diverted elsewhere—with ALPA’s blessings".......

Scope, funny thing happened a month ago to me. A good friend and hard liner RJDC supporter from Comair approached me w/ all kinds of info on upcoming hiring classes at LCC's and several big name box haulers. "Why the interest," I asked, "you always said you're fine where you are for life." His response was that of what TENS OF THOUSANDS before him had said. "I've done this long enough, 21 days on the road away from my family for one half to one third of what my peers are making, I've cut my teeth, I have the hours, time to move on." PRECISELY. What happened to gaining experience in the military or commuters to pursue the long term goal of acquiring a "wretched" mainline job. Why aren't you there? Under educated, overweight, heavy smoker, yellow teeth, poor interviewer, what's the problem w/ you guys? Your little RJDC does nothing but drag down an industry already challenged by opportunistic managment during our current downcycle. GET OVER IT. Fly your line like the thousands before you, gain the experience, make yourself marketable and get the scope and pay you want on a "mainline' jet somewhere.
 
100above;DH said:
Why aren't you there? Under educated, overweight, heavy smoker, yellow teeth, poor interviewer, what's the problem w/ you guys? Your little RJDC does nothing but drag down an industry already challenged by opportunistic managment during our current downcycle. GET OVER IT. Fly your line like the thousands before you, gain the experience, make yourself marketable and get the scope and pay you want on a "mainline' jet somewhere.
100above, that was beautifully written. My sentiments EXACTLY.
 
100above;dh,

How can any RJ pilot expect to get hired on flying a large aircraft, when mainline pilots continue to roll over for a management that demands flights be transfered from mainline to rj operators?? Oh I forgot the top 60% will still be flying mainline aircraft! It doesent matter if wages and benefits wont be protected for junior pilots. :down:
 
unit4clt,

Can't answer your question, I'm not a mainline guy and certainly did not cast a vote for/against the LOA 91 you are no doubt referencing. I'm still "cutting my teeth", re-applying for any "wretched" mainline jobs that open up, a task all RJDC crybabies should otherwise be focusing their attention on as well, as opposed to further deteriorating an already strained profession.
 
InclusiveScope -

Why are you re-hashing all of this? It's OVER, dude. LOA91 provides for the 50/50 staffing the PSA pilots wanted. They stood tough, and I applaud them for it. Interestingly, had they taken MGTs last offer, the 50/50 would have kicked in more quickly (end of June); now, the company has 90 days to comply. Whatever, career expectations at PSA are high for everyone on the property, because and ONLY because the two ALPAs worked together. You want an example of what happens when kids don't play well in the sandbox together? Talk to an ALG or PDT pilot.

You don't like Jets4Jobs, I take it. Well, it's a mess, I know, but it's also a creative solution for a problem that was created not by pilots for any U-group carrier, but by a team of @$$&^%$ led by Stevie Wolf and Rakesh Gangwal. There's the root of the problem, and we are all just trying to make up for lost time here at U Group.


I guess I'd like to say: Leave us alone! We are not your typical RJDC DEATH TO SCOPE situation. You can't apply you mainline hatred evenly accross every situation in aviation today. Find some peace in being employed and stop trying to save the world from those dasterdly doers of evil, the dreaded "mainline" pilot. :unsure:
 
You want an example of what happens when kids don't play well in the sandbox together? Talk to an ALG or PDT pilot


And where did you get your infomation. PDT/ALG were misled, and lied too. It was stated that the first WO to have all labor group on board (concessions) would be the part of the reconstruction plan and get on the RJ's. PDT was the first, and got nothing. We at PDT/ALG have held strong, to provide good working wages, and work rules to be dumped on by other regional carriers that will work for nothing. If anything, next time you see a old grey haired PDT/ALG guy, you should remember they worked hard to get some unity and work rules to the regionals, now all thats been pissed away by someone thats willing to fly and RJ for 17k a year.
JO said it right, he said he pays his pilots way too much money, if he can fill up every new hire class.
We are our worst enemies! PDT never wanted to grow(thinking that we would take mainline flying), just replace Dash 8's with RJ's, but I remember it was the Mainline Pilots that said all jets should be flown by mainline pilots..... oh well... u boys have them now.. LOL
You mainline boys don't cry about the RJ rates now, you folks neg. the rates and work rules at MDA... So live with it. God I love this profession I have chosen, IT ROCKS!!!!!!
 
I agree with you that ALG/PDT pilots have held strong and have good contracts. Congrats, and I mean that.

You said that ALG/PDT were lied to. Hey, join the club! Mgt. at every airline that I've ever worked for (several) has lied and lied and lied. What's the newsflash?

But, really, why aren't ALG/PDT part of the J4J program? PSA pilots made the necessary compromises....that much is clear.

In any case, best of luck. If you have more than 1000 hrs in the DHC-8, the time to move on was long ago, eh? So, get going, and have fun in training!
:)
 
>>>>> you should remember they worked hard to get some unity and work rules to the regionals, now all thats been pissed away by someone that's willing to fly an RJ for 17k a year. <<<<<<


By the way, the irony of the above statement is pretty funny. Isn't that exactly why us bad, selfish mainline pilots are pissed about? We worked hard over many decades to develope this profession, only to have it "pissed away by someone that's willing to fly an RJ for 17k a year."

Your heart is in the right place, I can tell, but your perspective is so....how should I say?.....17,000 feet.

I still meant what I said, though: great contracts.
 
But remember mainline pilots agreed to MDA, and that contract sticks. Eagle pay rates and work rules. They should have gotten something better, like Comair etc. Anyway, I fly at PDT and I personally think that anything over 50 seats should be flown by Mainline. I might get flamed for that comment by my regional brothers, but I don't inspire to fly a 70 RJ for 58.00 an hr. That is insane!! Come on, PDT/ALG Capts. on a Dash 8 make more money then a lot of RJ Capts at other regionals.
I made a choice after flight school, to go and fly for a regional with good pay and work rules. So PDT was my first choice since I was from Easter NC. Maybe not a good choice at all, with our current situation. But I believed that with college, FSI (instructor) corporate experience that my services deserved good pay and work rules. Yes I could have gone somewhere and flown a nice shiney RJ, but at the end of the month its all about the pay check, and the fact that I can sleep at night knowing that I havent whored the industry. Hmmmm, I feel better...
 
Well, WSurf, good thing you don't have to put up with the crappy MDA/PSA J4J/mainline sellout of the furloughees. Your flying airplanes that passengers don't really like, but you're making a great living at it.

I wish you the best. Hope it works long term for you. :unsure:
 
WSurf, I agree with you completely.

Years ago there would have been no question of who flies a seventy seat jet. In fact, mainline pilots did until not long ago.

So now here we are with everyone screwed to all hell. Half of the damm airline is furloughed and most of the flying is done by independant affiliates. No jets at Allegheny or Piedmont but PSA gets jets because thier the cheapest. They are also the smallest.

What would PSA's future have been if ALPA hadnt made it a condition that some of the RJs go to WOs (admittedly years too late, and they all should have gone to WOs).? They would have 20 dusty props ready to be left on the side of the road or turned into treehouses like AL and PI. But now they are getting bucketloads of jets, not only 50 seaters, but seventy seaters as well? Who the heck do you think should fly the 70s? New hires off the street? No, the huge list of furloughed mainline people. Everyone at PSA has a job with those jets. There are Airways people out of a job. Who cares what the history is. US Airways is in this situation because of management stupidity and PSA is in a "good" situation (if you consider new planes at s**t wages a good thing) because of sacrifices from labor, not because they are so fantastic they are buying a new fleet with thier own petty cash.

I dont even think they should bother with the CRJ700, particularly at a wholly owned. Its a much inferior plane to the EJet and complicates and duplicates when we were supposed to be consolidating and standardizing. It would be much simpler to go with the MAA division flying the 70+ jets instead of the administrative/integration nightmare of J4J.

Some people at the wholly-owneds are so anti-mainline- "they did this to us, they did that to us"- well why work for a commuter subsidiary then? The mainline company and labor will always be in control, and will always have much better contracts and such. Thats true anywhere. And all of the WO comraderie seems to go out the window when theres talk of consolidating them. Are the PSA pilots trying to do anything for thier wo "brothers and sisters" to share in the wealth of the new jets? Are the AL/PI pilots cordially sitting down to work the merger? No one wants senior people above them, just junior people. Everyone wants growth but only for themselves and normally at someone elses expense. Well isnt that why mainline has screwed the WOs in the past? Everyone acts the same in certain situations- Greedily. Seniority makes people do pretty shameful things. Its the first thing they teach airline management.

Someone has to put thier foot down somewhere here. The CRJ700 is the 900 as the E170 is the 195. If people really want to work those larger planes for crap money and a lifestyle no sane person would put up with, then go do it for the next scumbag airline that pops up.

The lines are so blurred, and it will affect everyone negatively. The novelty of flying a plane that looks like an MD80 will wear off when you realize you are completely broke and debt-ridden and you've assisted in scoping out the very idea of a "well-paying" airline job. Then of course you'll get furloughed anyway when the next dooshbag comes along and agrees to do it for even cheaper.

Its a slippery slope, one that we've seen as flight attendants big time. It was already a low-paying career and we were being taken advantage of, but progress was being made to bring it in line with other careers. But the LCCs and affiliate jet operators in conjunction with major airlines, have made it a summer job that pays less and has less benefits than Mickey Ds, because they know people will do it anyway. At least we havent poured thousands of hours and money to even begin our profession like pilots do, but its the same idea- someone doing it cheaper and making a mockery of good jobs that in and of themselves require personal sacrifice already.

The solution to all of this is to demand a single list. Pay rates for each aircraft that are competitive. No seperate groups, subsidiaries or affiliates (at least in the future). US Airways is not shrinking, just replacing- the planes and the employees. What is there to lose? They want new contracts anyway, may as well start from scratch. Do research, show how it would be cheaper. Use thier trick of throwing in something they want in return for what you want. For the mainline and WO pilots to be fighting is absurd as they are all on the same page- it just distacts everyone while Johhny O and friends take the flying and the revolving door of CEOs take the money they swore we werent making.

The airlines on the brink of extinction as it is... go down fighting for whats right, not for new technicalities put there to distract while the place burns down. Set an example for every other WO sub/mainline that are or are about to go through the same thing. The very idea of cartain things being "express" or "mainline" is antiquated but everyone still feeds into it. Everyone can fall into thier old trick and in-fight or work together as a team to find solutions that are good for all, and make a career worth working for, rather than a pathetic job to fight for each day.

Aimless rant over.
 
Light Years,

You have a very firm grasp of the realities of our times as well as the human factors involved w/ our profession, ref: your self proclaimed "aimless rant."
 
I think everyone here is missing a big point here!

Lets quit blaming each other over what is going on here. Some call it a race to the bottom! If you want someone to blame then look at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, American West, Spirit, ect. ect. These airlines are the fuel to our fire.

There is a reason why the wages are sliding in every area of our airlines! Its because our costomers are no longer willing to pay $1000+ for a seat on our aircraft. REVENUE is falling even though traffic is increaseing. And the consumer is going to fly the cheapest airline. And it is easier than ever to find that cheapest ticket with the internet.

Folks this is not the 80's and early 90's. The highly paid airline pilot is going away. Revenue now days will not support it. You can see this especially at US Airways. Just look at the employees at U. They are the most senior people making those senior $$s. U has no junior employees making less $$ doing the same job to offset those at the top making the big $$. Everyone is making $$ due to their years of service.

In my opinion this is exactly why PSA recieved the Jets and PDT and AGL didnt. The pilot group at PSA is far more Junior to PDT and AGL. Thus U get the RJs flown alot cheaper.

I cant help to see a much bigger problem for our costomers in the future if the LCC keeps taking over. As we all know all of the LCC dont and cant service the small markets like U does with Dash8 and Small RJs. So what will happen to airline service to all the small towns? Go away!!! Because once again the LCC can not operate in that enviroment and make money.

If I am not mistaking I think I heard that Southwest would have lost money last quarter if it was not for their fuel hedging. WOW!! I also heard Southwest must expand to stay profitable because as their pilot group matures so does the companies cost. So to counteract that they must expand and bring on NEW (Junior) employess making less $$ doing the same job to offset those senior empolyees making Big $$. But as you can see you can only grow so much until the revenue does not meet the cost. Which is exactly what has happened to the legacy carriers.

So for US Airways to survive everyone has to let go that the high paying airline is a thing of the past. As far as pilots go, No I dont think the pay should be reduced. I do think though that eveyone needs to an increase in productivity. Pilots should fly as close to 1000 hours/year and leave it up to management and scheduling to stop all of this sitting around. That goes for the gate agents, ramper, ect.... Having a hub and spoke system lends its self to alot of sitting around with an hour of actual work as banks come in and go out.

Ok enough from me....Hope this made some kind of sense
 
Some of you have good points and some of you don't, and unfortunately I don't have the time to respond to everything here.

I will say this however, 99.9% of the problems within this Association and Company are due to the fact that the Mainline employees refuse to come to the reality that they are Wholly-Owend employees too. Yes its true, just like PDT, ALG, and PSA, US Airways is a Wholly-Owned subsiderary of the US Airways Group. Mainline DOES NOT own PDT, ALG, and PSA the Group does.

If most of the Mainline employees could come to this understanding, imagine the possibilties of being able to work together and get this place under control.

And light years, you said something in your post to the fact that PSA should'nt be hiring of the streets for these new positions while furloughees are on the street. Well, they (furloughees) have been offered the positions, but apparently they are too good to be FO's.
 
Back
Top