Project Roam ---(MANY Merged threads)

[HPearlyretiree]

The only fresh new idea Beauvais has is figuring out how to funnel as much cash into the pockets of his sons and his wife and his cousins.

Beauvais should be out running a 3 card monty game on a street corner. :blink:

 

[Doc]

Hey Titan


I agree that competition is good but at what cost these LCC pay employees a lot less then the normal wage and other vender as well that’s why you get 59.00 OW tickets don’t you care about the workers in this country all you want is cheap…. cheap tickets you don’t care how you get it and its making sick that workers take these jobs because that’s all there is... most probably work 2 jobs but you probably don’t want to hear about that as long as you get you cheap ticket……

 

[Flying Titan]

Hey Titan


I agree that competition is good but at what cost these LCC pay employees a lot less then the normal wage and other vender as well that’s why you get 59.00 OW tickets don’t you care about the workers in this country all you want is cheap…. cheap tickets you don’t care how you get it and its making sick that workers take these jobs because that’s all there is... most probably work 2 jobs but you probably don’t want to hear about that as long as you get you cheap ticket……

Doc -
No. I want to get a ticket with a FAIR PRICE. It's inexcusable to be gouged to the tune of nearly $2,000 for a coach seat for a business trip to LAX with four days notice - though I was upgraded one-way. (This happened to me just a few months ago) And yes, I believe that it's too much even at half the price. Am I looking for a $199 RT transcon? No - that's not reasonable - but I'll bet that there were some people on the same flight who paid that fare. That's what's wrong here and that's what the LCCs have figured out. I'm sure - if the option were available to me - I could have gotten a flight on an LCC with the same advance purchase for $600-$800 RT. Fare rationalization has to happen at U and the rest of the legacy carriers or the problems will get worse not better. Blaming the customer for the ills of this industry is the wrong way to go. I recognize that U frequently offers me more value than an LCC would - and it's why I am a US2 - but that value is not worth paying two- three- or four-times as much as I would on an LCC. This is the root of the problem and it's certainly not the passengers' fault.

 

[Flying Titan]

One word: Legend 😉 .

737 -
Sounds more like JetBlue to me and I think they're doing pretty well.

 

[Ch. 12]

737 -
Sounds more like JetBlue to me and I think they're doing pretty well.

...again...JetBlue out of PIT?! If they went to a major city, I would compare them to JB but not if their focus is on PIT. Sounds like Vanguard to me.

 

[Flying Titan]

Ch. 12 -
My comparison was based on the pricing and amenities that were brought up in the article. I believe they are more like JetBlue than the all first-class model that Legend used.

Relative to market size, you'll recall that there were a lot of people who said JetBlue would never work because nobody would want to fly from JFK. It was an airport with remarkably little domestic traffic. PIT is certainly big enough to host a low-fare carrier. Lower fares spur traffic. Plus, I believe this operation is talking about being a hub-spoke carrier so a closer comparison would probably be AirTran or Frontier.

 

[Ch. 12]

Ch. 12 -
My comparison was based on the pricing and amenities that were brought up in the article. I believe they are more like JetBlue than the all first-class model that Legend used.

Relative to market size, you'll recall that there were a lot of people who said JetBlue would never work because nobody would want to fly from JFK. It was an airport with remarkably little domestic traffic. PIT is certainly big enough to host a low-fare carrier. Lower fares spur traffic. Plus, I believe this operation is talking about being a hub-spoke carrier so a closer comparison would probably be AirTran or Frontier.

I do remember what was said about JFK. BUT...JFK is NYC and the population is there...it was just a matter of getting people to fly into/out of JFK. The main reason there wasn't much domestic traffic at JFK was because there weren't many domestic flights compared to EWR/LGA. The traffic was limited by capacity provided. In PIT, however, it is a very small market especially for the primary hub of a LCC. F9 in DEN and FL in ATL/BWI/DFW, etc are different in that they actually hub their operations in major metropolitan areas.

I just think that too often in this industry something is perceived to be a good idea because no other carrier is doing it (hubbing in PIT, hubbing in RDU, hubbing in MCI) and nobody has the forward-thinking sense to look at what kind of demand they can realistically expect to/from that hub. Filling flights with connecting traffic will be the name of the game in PIT and that game is always lost.

 

[Flying Titan]

Ch. 12 -
PIT has a history as a successful hub. Just because U can't affort the Taj Mahal that it demanded the airport authority build doesn't mean it can't work. As far as O&D traffic, I believe PIT has historically had 5-7 million annual enplanements (correct me if I'm mistaken). Add that to the growth in enplanements that accompanies the arrival of any LCC and it seems like a viable market to me. As I've written before what's wrong with PIT??? Just how many local enplanements do you feel a market needs to be a successful hub? PIT has a great airport and will probably cut a sweetheart deal with a new LCC to base its operations there. I simply don't buy the notion that it CAN'T work. If a new airline starts with enough capital and has a competent management team, then it seems like a good place to be - based in the northeast - the region where 2/3 of the nation's population resides.

Now, having said that, I'm not foolish enough to believe that any new start-up carrier is a sure thing. It's a crazy business - fun to watch - but it's never been stable. Based on what I've read, I think this group has as decent a chance as any that's come along lately (lots of fresh ideas, many of which have been brought up on this forum) - but it would be hard to bet the mortgage on it.

 

[RDUSWF]

As far as O&D, RDU is a larger O&D market then two of US's hubs (PIT & CLT) and it isn't an ideal place to hub. Just ask JI (Midway II). Though I believe that JI would have been successful if they would have stuck to their original plan (RJs) and not try to be the next big thing.