If I remember didn't PSA ground guys clean palnes ..also and didn't they dump the laves F/A's helped clean cabins as well. I know that piedmont was slimmer and we got more done and we got paid a lot less than we deserved I don't know what happend to those days......... We all did a lot more than we do now and if we get back to that kind of operations and I think we will..... It will mean the end of some work groups I know for a fact that all work groups have way to much down time and no matter how much of a pay cut we take it won't matter ...........
Productivity Psa/piedmont
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
Dear Doc,
You are correct when it came to PI, We had cleaners that did the heavy cleaning at maint. hangers. During the day the Flt Attd, Gate CS agents and ramp rats would pitch in and take pride in cleaning the planes. I did this for 2 1/2 years in INT and CLT. If the plane was dirty from previous flt you had the Piedmont family pride and just did it. Ramp and Gate was not unionized and Flt Attd were but they took the approach that they work for PI and were member of AFA. They knew where their paycheck came from, PI and not AFA so we all worked together.
This was in the early 80's but I know that this went on in PI culture until 1987/89 period. I was just out of college, young, had energy and took pride in Piedmont. We all did. Now the people have aged more and contracts say what everyone should do.
Colodny was the one to do this at merger. Piedmont had many part time employees that wanted to make above ave. pay for partime work and got to fly free. We staffed to have plenty of senior experience and had the part timers to work morning and evening when planes were fullest. This kept a fresh crew working the gates and ramp all day long. They also did this in Res at PI. They wanted people tto have a part time job that did not have to "put food on the table for entire family as a P/T peson" but offered somone time to get out of house and be able to take spouse and family on a flight. Once again fresh voice on the phones and senior fulltime people to handle tougher situations. PI was growing so fast that they had plenty of opportunity to get full time if they wanted it. If they wanted just part time to get flight benifits that was fine as well. Colodny made mistake of making all these people fulltime and lost flexability to staff properly. Also at PI you could go from ramp to gates to Tkt counter if you where qualified. This allowed you to learn much and see how one position effected the other and made for better empolyee.
Since this was almost 20 years ago I don't know if Colodny laid off most part time people or if he said go fulltime or leave. (some said he wanted to make some of the PI people happy about merger and did this.)
All I know is if it had a PI name on the plane and it did not require a special goverment license then you wanted to help out because of the great PI culture developed by Mr. Davis. He used to say, "we are in the customer service industry we just happen to fly planes."
You had pride in what you where doing, you were a member of a special family. We did it and no one hardly ever left PI. All this and PI was never near the top paying airlines. It was never money that motivated the people of PI to do what they did.
Now with all the different mgt teams and each bringing on a different set of mgt problems for the next mgt team to try and solve it has just culminated into one of the most dysfunctional airlines since Eastern. With bad union contracts, poor mgt,
no business plan and mostly the inability to price gouge from the Carolinas up to the N/E USAIRways days are numbered. It is not one thing but everything.
The rank and file at US has been through so much and still the numbers they have produced have been from with in each individual. The numbers US has produced at the mgt level has been unbelievably poor.
I sure as the ave age of the PI empolyee got older we would not have been able to hustle as fast but I know we would have worked together to passengers benefit and not had each group holding out the union contract in the other persons face saying why he was not going to do a certian job even if it meant customer was mad and took business to other carriers and now the LCC's.
All the ill will that US has built up over the many decades and the attitude of "US or the Bus" has finally comeback to haunt them right to the end.
The end is near because people are not going to give their business to the company that had a reputation for poor service and high prices. (I place this problem on Sr. Mgt teams that ran US since mid 80's and not the rank and file employees of US.) they will support the airline that brought those lower fares to their city.
SW smelled blood back when US bought PSA and then gave away CA, SW smelled blood when US gave away the BWI hub and FLA routes PI made great money on. Now they are at the jugular in PHL and the battle of the market place will be over as US fights it self because of not just a bad plan but from what I saw from Dave's web cast no plan.
I would not want to be still working for US knowing the CEO says we are only 4 more gates to SW from being out of business. I bet Herb is trying to see if he can weld 4 more jetways onto the 4 he has now to show Dave how it can be done with a real plan, management that is trusted and employees that are motivated.
I will never forget being in a merger meeting and hearing R. Malin SVP Mkt. tell all the sales people of US/PI that itcould be the best airline or with mismanagement it could be the Eastern Airlines of the 90's or next century. This was only thing a USAir Sr. Mgt team member has gotten right in last 20 years.
Prayers for all those with so much uncertianty for company and your personal families.
You are correct when it came to PI, We had cleaners that did the heavy cleaning at maint. hangers. During the day the Flt Attd, Gate CS agents and ramp rats would pitch in and take pride in cleaning the planes. I did this for 2 1/2 years in INT and CLT. If the plane was dirty from previous flt you had the Piedmont family pride and just did it. Ramp and Gate was not unionized and Flt Attd were but they took the approach that they work for PI and were member of AFA. They knew where their paycheck came from, PI and not AFA so we all worked together.
This was in the early 80's but I know that this went on in PI culture until 1987/89 period. I was just out of college, young, had energy and took pride in Piedmont. We all did. Now the people have aged more and contracts say what everyone should do.
Colodny was the one to do this at merger. Piedmont had many part time employees that wanted to make above ave. pay for partime work and got to fly free. We staffed to have plenty of senior experience and had the part timers to work morning and evening when planes were fullest. This kept a fresh crew working the gates and ramp all day long. They also did this in Res at PI. They wanted people tto have a part time job that did not have to "put food on the table for entire family as a P/T peson" but offered somone time to get out of house and be able to take spouse and family on a flight. Once again fresh voice on the phones and senior fulltime people to handle tougher situations. PI was growing so fast that they had plenty of opportunity to get full time if they wanted it. If they wanted just part time to get flight benifits that was fine as well. Colodny made mistake of making all these people fulltime and lost flexability to staff properly. Also at PI you could go from ramp to gates to Tkt counter if you where qualified. This allowed you to learn much and see how one position effected the other and made for better empolyee.
Since this was almost 20 years ago I don't know if Colodny laid off most part time people or if he said go fulltime or leave. (some said he wanted to make some of the PI people happy about merger and did this.)
All I know is if it had a PI name on the plane and it did not require a special goverment license then you wanted to help out because of the great PI culture developed by Mr. Davis. He used to say, "we are in the customer service industry we just happen to fly planes."
You had pride in what you where doing, you were a member of a special family. We did it and no one hardly ever left PI. All this and PI was never near the top paying airlines. It was never money that motivated the people of PI to do what they did.
Now with all the different mgt teams and each bringing on a different set of mgt problems for the next mgt team to try and solve it has just culminated into one of the most dysfunctional airlines since Eastern. With bad union contracts, poor mgt,
no business plan and mostly the inability to price gouge from the Carolinas up to the N/E USAIRways days are numbered. It is not one thing but everything.
The rank and file at US has been through so much and still the numbers they have produced have been from with in each individual. The numbers US has produced at the mgt level has been unbelievably poor.
I sure as the ave age of the PI empolyee got older we would not have been able to hustle as fast but I know we would have worked together to passengers benefit and not had each group holding out the union contract in the other persons face saying why he was not going to do a certian job even if it meant customer was mad and took business to other carriers and now the LCC's.
All the ill will that US has built up over the many decades and the attitude of "US or the Bus" has finally comeback to haunt them right to the end.
The end is near because people are not going to give their business to the company that had a reputation for poor service and high prices. (I place this problem on Sr. Mgt teams that ran US since mid 80's and not the rank and file employees of US.) they will support the airline that brought those lower fares to their city.
SW smelled blood back when US bought PSA and then gave away CA, SW smelled blood when US gave away the BWI hub and FLA routes PI made great money on. Now they are at the jugular in PHL and the battle of the market place will be over as US fights it self because of not just a bad plan but from what I saw from Dave's web cast no plan.
I would not want to be still working for US knowing the CEO says we are only 4 more gates to SW from being out of business. I bet Herb is trying to see if he can weld 4 more jetways onto the 4 he has now to show Dave how it can be done with a real plan, management that is trusted and employees that are motivated.
I will never forget being in a merger meeting and hearing R. Malin SVP Mkt. tell all the sales people of US/PI that itcould be the best airline or with mismanagement it could be the Eastern Airlines of the 90's or next century. This was only thing a USAir Sr. Mgt team member has gotten right in last 20 years.
Prayers for all those with so much uncertianty for company and your personal families.
Actually, PI paid f/t agents within $1 of what DL, AA, EA and UA made.
Mr. Davis took great pride in telling us we worked as hard or harder than those guys, and he was going to pay us what they made.
OTOTH, we were a hustling and aggressive airline who feared no one in head-to-head competition.
God, I'd have loved to have seen a PI/WN match-up.
That would have spared us the webcast!
Mr. Davis took great pride in telling us we worked as hard or harder than those guys, and he was going to pay us what they made.
OTOTH, we were a hustling and aggressive airline who feared no one in head-to-head competition.
God, I'd have loved to have seen a PI/WN match-up.
That would have spared us the webcast!
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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- Banned
- #4
"God, I'd have loved to have seen a PI/WN match-up."
It probably would be tougher than the PI/PE match-up. I still remember the $19 one way fares GSO-EWR before PE pulled out. I'm sure the F/A's still remember serving 151 passengers hot meals and free booze between EWR & ORF.
I'm confident PI wouldn't have bought PSA and dismantled the west coast network. Or ran from BWI if the going got tough. In fact, there's a lot of things that have happened in the last 15 years that I don't think PI would have done - or done better.
Jim
It probably would be tougher than the PI/PE match-up. I still remember the $19 one way fares GSO-EWR before PE pulled out. I'm sure the F/A's still remember serving 151 passengers hot meals and free booze between EWR & ORF.
I'm confident PI wouldn't have bought PSA and dismantled the west coast network. Or ran from BWI if the going got tough. In fact, there's a lot of things that have happened in the last 15 years that I don't think PI would have done - or done better.
Jim
Well I can tell you we, PI, ran PE out of several markets.
BUT as far as doing more, that could not be further from the Truth. I worked for PI in the LARGEST non-Hub Station with over 100 Jet Departures a Day and Nine Gates as well as over 50 Commuter flights. Yes we worked both C/S and Fleet but we did not clean planes, Butler Aviation did that, We did not put Ice or any other Catering Supplies on Dobbs did that, We didnt De-Ice Maintenance did that.......etc etc etc......
We do everthing from Load/Clean/Deice now a days when in years back all we did was Load/Unload the aircraft (W & B Too). I would not mind making less and doing less work again.
BUT as far as doing more, that could not be further from the Truth. I worked for PI in the LARGEST non-Hub Station with over 100 Jet Departures a Day and Nine Gates as well as over 50 Commuter flights. Yes we worked both C/S and Fleet but we did not clean planes, Butler Aviation did that, We did not put Ice or any other Catering Supplies on Dobbs did that, We didnt De-Ice Maintenance did that.......etc etc etc......
We do everthing from Load/Clean/Deice now a days when in years back all we did was Load/Unload the aircraft (W & B Too). I would not mind making less and doing less work again.
