Prisoner Swap

[townpete]

So its ok to leave an American soldier be a prisoner of the Taliban?
 
So it was ok for Ike trade Russians for Gary Powers who failed to destroy his plane and became captive and let the Russians have access to American spy technology?

 
So trade 5 Taliban for a loser deserter is acceptable, but the release of prisoners held by Iran for some spectacular phony deal is way too much to ask.
 
Only in liberaland.

 

[eolesen]

So its ok to leave an American soldier be a prisoner of the Taliban?
 
So it was ok for Ike trade Russians for Gary Powers who failed to destroy his plane and became captive and let the Russians have access to American spy technology?

Yep, there's absolutely no difference between a loser deserting his post and someone being shot down while on a mission.

Failing to destroy his plane? What makes you think him riding an out of control plane all the way to the ground would have ensured the camera being destroyed? What spy technology did the Russians get, aside from having proof of the overflights?

Discovery of the overflight program was the only casualty from the shootdown. Both sides benefited from that -- the US knew what the Russian's capabilities were (or, weren't), and things didn't escalate as badly as they could have.

Meanwhile, another one of Obama's released prisoners returns to battle:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2015/12/ex-guantanamo-detainee-now-an-al-qaeda-leader-in-yemen.php

 

[700UW]

All U2 pilots are instructed that destroying the airplane is mandatory.

 

[700UW]

https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Francis-Gary-Powers-The-U-2-Incident

 

[delldude]

https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Francis-Gary-Powers-The-U-2-Incident

 
Don't let the movie get in your way.......
 
Powers was shot down on a mission for his government, Bergdahl deserted his platoon on a mission for his government.
Slight difference.

 

[eolesen]

All U2 pilots are instructed that destroying the airplane is mandatory.

Perhaps they are now, but can you prove those were standing orders at the time he was shot down, or is that just revisionist history?

Clearly, the aircraft wasn't equipped in a way to ensure the airplane could be destroyed.

Then again, they also didn't believe that a SAM would be able to reach it at 70,000 ft.

I know there were military officials who believed he should have destroyed the airplane, but the fact still remains it was shot down, crashed, and the camera & other items survived. What guarantees short of explosives attached to the sensitive gear would there be that they wouldn't have survived him turning the aircraft into a lawn dart and riding it down to the ground?

Yeah, I know that's an answer you can't respond to with one of your silly memes or a link you find on Google.

You worked at USAir when they were still losing airplanes every 18 months, so you've probably seen how some items always manage to survives an impact.

Without the ability to control the aircraft, there's really not much Powers could have done differently without a couple blocks of C4 attached to the surveillance gear.

 

[700UW]

Eric they were standing orders when he was shot down, I will post the information later when I get home tonight.

The US government actually shunned him for not blowing the plane up.

 

[eolesen]

No, some in the government shunned him because the cover-up they tried to do embarrassed the Eisenhower administration. Powers was buried at Arlington, and earned it.

Regardless, being shot down over enemy territory and walking away from one's post and seeking out the enemy.

Feel free to keep going down the deflection rabbit holes if you wish.

 

[townpete]

Eric they were standing orders when he was shot down, I will post the information later when I get home tonight.

The US government actually shunned him for not blowing the plane up.

 
Big difference of being shot down vs walking away in desertion.
 
You're really not very good at this morally equivalency thing are you?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I think they did the right thing bringing Bergdhal back then investigating and trying him in a courts martial.

If it was your son or daughter being accused of this (eoleson), would you want them to just be left as a prisoner without due process? Many people on death row turn out to be innocent. Not saying that this guy is, but he still deserves due process in a military system.

If he does turn out to be a deserter and convicted of it, then he does life in prison where he belongs. We don't sentence our people to Taliban POW camps as much as some would like to do (without due process). The big constitutionalists are not so much for due process in some certain cases...

 

[townpete]

I think they did the right thing bringing Bergdhal back then investigating and trying him in a courts martial.

If it was your son or daughter being accused of this (eoleson), would you want them to just be left as a prisoner without due process? Many people on death row turn out to be innocent. Not saying that this guy is, but he still deserves due process in a military system.

If he does turn out to be a deserter and convicted of it, then he does life in prison where he belongs. We don't sentence our people to Taliban POW camps as much as some would like to do (without due process). The big constitutionalists are not so much for due process in some certain cases...

 
Break out the tiny violins.
 
More moral equivalency.
 
 

 

[delldude]

Eric they were standing orders when he was shot down, I will post the information later when I get home tonight.

The US government actually shunned him for not blowing the plane up.

 
Takes a missile hit, plummeting to earth and you're arguing specifics...SAM's happen.
Still no real bearing here as a deserter.
 
 
U-2 was an Edsel by then with the introduction of the SR-71 and satellite optics. It is still flown today for research and so on. Saw limited action over the ME, but nowhere where anyone has any type missiles good to 70K+. 
 
 
 

I think they did the right thing bringing Bergdhal back then investigating and trying him in a courts martial.

If it was your son or daughter being accused of this (eoleson), would you want them to just be left as a prisoner without due process? Many people on death row turn out to be innocent. Not saying that this guy is, but he still deserves due process in a military system.

If he does turn out to be a deserter and convicted of it, then he does life in prison where he belongs. We don't sentence our people to Taliban POW camps as much as some would like to do (without due process). The big constitutionalists are not so much for due process in some certain cases...

 
Unless I'm wrong, UCMJ affords one due process. 

 

[eolesen]

I think they did the right thing bringing Bergdhal back then investigating and trying him in a courts martial.

If it was your son or daughter being accused of this (eoleson), would you want them to just be left as a prisoner without due process? Many people on death row turn out to be innocent. Not saying that this guy is, but he still deserves due process in a military system.

If he does turn out to be a deserter and convicted of it, then he does life in prison where he belongs. We don't sentence our people to Taliban POW camps as much as some would like to do (without due process). The big constitutionalists are not so much for due process in some certain cases...

Glenn, I already answered the red herring question "what if it was your son?" over a year ago: http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57219-prisoner-swap/page-3#entry1091580

I don't recall ever arguing that Bergdahl should have been left to rot. I don't think he was worth five terrorists, though.

What I've questioned in the past is:

1) the legality of doing the transfer without going thru Congress (http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57219-prisoner-swap/page-5#entry1091691)

2) the Obama Administration using him as a theater prop, especially when there was doubt over whether he was a deserter or captured in the line of duty

UW's attempts to try and smear Gary Powers with the same brush as Bergdahl are lame. They may have both been POW's, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends.

Oh, and Powers was legally traded via Congress. Not executive action.

 

[delldude]

House armed services committee has been investigating the swap. He violated the law, no doubt.
 
Good thing it wasn't Bush or we'd be impeaching.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Glenn, I already answered the red herring question "what if it was your son?" over a year ago: http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57219-prisoner-swap/page-3#entry1091580I don't recall ever arguing that Bergdahl should have been left to rot. I don't think he was worth five terrorists, though.What I've questioned in the past is:1) the legality of doing the transfer without going thru Congress (http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57219-prisoner-swap/page-5#entry1091691)2) the Obama Administration using him as a theater prop, especially when there was doubt over whether he was a deserter or captured in the line of dutyUW's attempts to try and smear Gary Powers with the same brush as Bergdahl are lame. They may have both been POW's, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends.Oh, and Powers was legally traded via Congress. Not executive action.

All good points. Although the "theater prop" comment is a little over the top, I will take that with the political seasoning being sprinkled around so generously in this, well, political season. Merry Christmas btw ;-)

I would argue that bringing our man back is worth it. Was he worth trading enemy POW'S? If he was my son, yes.

That is an age old argument that we will not settle here.

I have nothing to add over the straw man U2 thing.